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EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

bbc.com

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Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#321

Post by tcmb »

roenxi wrote: post #313
qeternity wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone knows where the real money laundering and terrorist financing happens. > It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. This used to be the case. And undoubtedly it still goes on. There simply weren’t many other mechanisms to launder money that didn’t involve large banks…until crypto joined the party. Crypto’s most popular feature is speculation, and its second most popular featur…

There are some things the government can't realistically do. Like taxing oxygen consumption or preventing people thinking things. Or how they have been totally unable to stop tax evasion for thousands of years. I'd be more than happy if controlling capital joined the list of things government just can't do. I think freely flowing capital is going to be good for everyone. Good luck to the crypto community & I'm sure a…

There's plenty of things that cannot be completely prevented, and we don't take that to mean that all counter measures are futile and should be dropped.

Examples are basically any kind of crime and violence, traffic accidents, all kinds of things that harm people and societies.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#322

Post by valdiorn »

ulzeraj wrote: post #312
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Let me tell you in an unfiltered way that this is bullshit. I don't care about language. Downvote me or report this if you like but this is literally the kind of bullshit that makes the world a terrible place. Big money laundering and state wide unethical operations always find a way to operate on the clear financial system. You are probably using some shinny brand device bought from a famous company that contains pa…

this is woefully inaccurate. Like, seriously wrong. parent comment was on point.

I can tell you, as someone who works in finance, that KYC rules are taken very, very seriously. The bigger the client, the more important they become. There is harsh punishment from both my company if not the government if KYC processes aren't followed correctly. Losing your job is the least of your worries if you're complicit in a case like that.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#323

Post by tiluha »

Semaphor wrote: post #208
elmo2you wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the moment you hold valuable assets (i.e. any value of crypto currency) in any wallet, then you should report that (even now). I have no idea how these new rules will play out, but I can image how exchanges might be forced allow only transactions with "sanctioned" wallets (i.e. traceable to person), and international exchanges not playing complying being blocked from to the EU market.

> I believe that the moment you hold valuable assets (i.e. any value of crypto currency) in any wallet, then you should report that (even now). First I hear of that. In Germany, you have to report gains you got from trading/selling (both crypto-to-fiat and crypto-to-crypto), but not simply buying any. Do you have a source?

More specifically, you only have to report gains if you sold within one year of buying

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#324

Post by ulzeraj »

valdiorn wrote: post #322
ulzeraj wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you in an unfiltered way that this is bullshit. I don't care about language. Downvote me or report this if you like but this is literally the kind of bullshit that makes the world a terrible place. Big money laundering and state wide unethical operations always find a way to operate on the clear financial system. You are probably using some shinny brand device bought from a famous company that contains pa…

this is woefully inaccurate. Like, seriously wrong. parent comment was on point. I can tell you, as someone who works in finance, that KYC rules are taken very, very seriously. The bigger the client, the more important they become. There is harsh punishment from both my company if not the government if KYC processes aren't followed correctly. Losing your job is the least of your worries if you're complicit in a case…

> The bigger the client, the more important they become.

Yet accountability is so great for big offenders that one day they might preside over the European Central Bank.

> There is harsh punishment from both my company if not the government if KYC processes aren't followed correctly.

And that's why banks will just kick Amir who has only 3000 EUR on his account out of the platform. Why risk such a heavy punishment for a poor bloke?

I invite you to visit the reddit pages for N26, Revolut and similar banks. I don't think those threads about accounts being closed without justification are made by terrorists and money launderers.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#325

Post by roenxi »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #316
roenxi wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some things the government can't realistically do. Like taxing oxygen consumption or preventing people thinking things. Or how they have been totally unable to stop tax evasion for thousands of years. I'd be more than happy if controlling capital joined the list of things government just can't do. I think freely flowing capital is going to be good for everyone. Good luck to the crypto community & I'm sure a…

> I think freely flowing capital is going to be good for everyone. The US and 'west' is already financially liberal, so we can make an observation: it is NOT good for everyone. Capital flows freely, but it flows upwards. Trickle-down economics is proven false. Advocating for more liberal finances also means being okay with leaving people behind and in the shit; the unemployed, the homeless, the working poor, the huge…

I don't buy the theory that someone else being well off makes me badly off. I also don't buy the theory that someone else being badly off should make me feel bad.

Capital controls aren't going to help the unemployed, the homeless, the working poor, the huge percentage of people who constantly live one paycheck or one medical issue away from bankruptcy. Capital controls will make those problems worse; forcing people to make bad decisions with their investments is not the fast track to getting great long term results.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#326

Post by ceilingcorner »

alkonaut wrote: post #262
ceilingcorner wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked, “society” is more than the monied class that makes up government and finance. Bizarre that I have to point this out on a site with the word hacker in its name.

What does the “monied class” have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that regular voters would opt against transparency and for privacy? I sure wouldn’t

You are one person and you weren’t asked to vote on it. So yes, the monied classes decided for you.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#327

Post by tiluha »

digianarchist wrote: post #180
xvilka wrote: post #131

I guess free promotion for Monero[1]. It's a shame they don't support anonymous smart contracts and don't even plan to. [1] https://github.com/monero-project/monero

Lots of promise and a lack of delivery from that project. They sunk tens of thousands of community dollars into i2p integration instead of simply using Tor. Multi-sig was totally impractical last time I looked. Can't comment on atomic-swaps though. If that works that would make it useful.

IMO i2p integration was the right choice. I2P actively encourages P2P traffic, while on Tor it would put a lot more load on the more centralized routing nodes.

Also tens of thousands are practically nothing. The general fund currently holds more than 22 millions USD worth of monero.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#328

Post by krageon »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #246
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. And, as it happens, because of the records, it has been discovered and everyone involved is traceable. The system works.

So where are the consequences?

There are no consequences that matter, because the system itself is the problem.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#329

Post by ceilingcorner »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #195
ceilingcorner wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked, “society” is more than the monied class that makes up government and finance. Bizarre that I have to point this out on a site with the word hacker in its name.

It's not bizarre to realize society needs some constraints to function. A computer isn't just a bunch of electrons thrown into a box, much like society isn't just a bunch of people doing whatever they want.

What does this have to do with my comment? Being critical of the government doesn’t automatically make you an anarchist.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#330

Post by krageon »

arcticbull wrote: post #271
sokoloff wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I give up just this little bit of privacy, all of those concerns melt away to nothingness? Or is it more likely that I give that away and nothing else really improves?

If you give up some privacy (subject to release with a judge's approval) then we can attempt to reign in bad actors. Deciding that we shouldn't attempt to reign in bad actors is, IMO, a bad call - and one I don't think enjoys broad-based support. Yes, I think it's worse if North Korea gets a nuke than if the FBI gets a peek at my Amazon purchases pursuant to a judge's order.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but given that NK already has nukes (and so do tons of other bad actors) I'm not sure what you think you're proving here. We already know this whole "give up your privacy for safety!" thing is nonsense, because the privacy has gone way down over the past years and safety has not changed at all. It's theater, a puppet show put up in order to rob you of your essential freedom for the gratification and enrichment of another.
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