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EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

bbc.com

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Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#241

Post by arcticbull »

max_ wrote: post #228
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Bitcoin's goal was to help people "get out" of the traditional financial system "not inside it". Everyone knows where the real money laundering and terrorist financing happens. It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. This is public knowledge, as we have seen with the Panama papers and most recently the FinCen files. Our financial institutions are too rotten for you to even assume that…

Funny, right after 1100 crypto money launderers in China were arrested, nobody wanted any more Tethers. [1] Now my statements are entirely circumstantial, but I strongly suggest you watch this space.

> The public security ministry said that by Wednesday afternoon police had busted more than 170 criminal groups involved in using cryptocurrencies to launder money.

> China’s Payment & Clearing Association said on Wednesday that the number of crimes involving the use of virtual currencies is on the rise.

> Because cryptocurrencies are anonymous, convenient and global in nature, “they have increasingly become an important channel for cross-border money laundering,” the association said in a statement.

Sounds right to me.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/10/china-arrests-over-1100-susp...

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#242

Post by xunn0026 »

d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

"Society" has not clearly chosen such thing. Governments LOVE this power, but don't confuse governments with society.

I would also LOVE to see each and every transaction my state does but all I see is high-level budgets with no individual level transactions.

States and state institutions have much much greater "privacy" while the people are heading towards 0 privacy.

I would have expected the reverse to happen first but here we are.

The government most definitely cares about the shit you buy. If they had an infrastructure they would tax you and "nudge" you based on a lot of societal / individual metrics.

I would say the whole purpose of BitCoin was to counter government stupidity so this new regulation continues the trend.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#243

Post by anigbrowl »

max_ wrote: post #228
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Bitcoin's goal was to help people "get out" of the traditional financial system "not inside it". Everyone knows where the real money laundering and terrorist financing happens. It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. This is public knowledge, as we have seen with the Panama papers and most recently the FinCen files. Our financial institutions are too rotten for you to even assume that…

That's very true, but 'dark money for everyone' doesn't necessarily seem like an improvement.

I am in favor of privacy and not having to explain what you choose to do with your own money, but imho the aggregate yield curve of total privacy inverts as you ascend a logarithmic scale.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#244

Post by int_19h »

sabjut wrote: post #130
the-dude wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This total control nonsense Also known as taxes. > these dinosaur idiots Taxman.

I think it's really funny to see all these people think that they can with crypto game the millennia old system of taxation. Of course any sovereign nation is eventually going to break down any kinds of tax fraud. A state unable to collect taxes ceases to be a sovereign state.

You don't need to track all cash flow in society to collect taxes. You do need it specifically for personal income tax. If we, say, taxed property and other monopoly rights more extensively instead (in the vein of georgism), such an arrangement wouldn't be so privacy-invasive. It would also mean that those at the top would have to pay more, though - so...

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#245

Post by RandomLensman »

max_ wrote: post #228
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Bitcoin's goal was to help people "get out" of the traditional financial system "not inside it". Everyone knows where the real money laundering and terrorist financing happens. It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. This is public knowledge, as we have seen with the Panama papers and most recently the FinCen files. Our financial institutions are too rotten for you to even assume that…

Do you have evidence on KYC/AML/CFT being in a state of regulatory capture? I would say they are anything but. Huge expenses for all involved, no standards that would be good enough to just fulfill.

What we have observed is financial institutions failing with respect to KYC/AML/CFT/sanctions etc. (and getting fined for it), but that is not regulatory capture.

Also, I'd argue that since 2008 regulatory capture isn't working so well anymore, with a lot of extra regulation being thrown at the system (some of which being eased now again).

Regulators are incentivized to see dangers everywhere and acting accordingly. The last time they did not see dangers everywhere, it didn't work out so well, either. The counteracting force would come for electorates and policy makers seeing opportunity and progress lost from being overly cautious.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#246

Post by read_if_gay_ »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #240
max_ wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin's goal was to help people "get out" of the traditional financial system "not inside it". Everyone knows where the real money laundering and terrorist financing happens. It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. This is public knowledge, as we have seen with the Panama papers and most recently the FinCen files. Our financial institutions are too rotten for you to even assume that…

> It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. And, as it happens, because of the records, it has been discovered and everyone involved is traceable. The system works.

So where are the consequences?

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#247

Post by eingaeKaiy8ujie »

delaaxe wrote: post #219
stavros wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is completely untrue, since there are private cryptocurrencies you can use.

“Completely untrue”, this is a mathematician’s answer. Any real person using DeFi or NFTs is not using a privacy coins

There are also things like Tornado.cash.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#248

Post by arcticbull »

bigyikes wrote: post #177
tehjoker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that you're wrong, it's that the balance of power in the financial system is weighted strongly to the very rich, who own most of the money supply not held by banks and the treasury. Private transactions offer them incredible opportunities to screw the rest of us over.

Fair enough. I see this as a price worth paying for privacy.

Well that, crime, money laundering, terrorist financing and evasion of international sanctions allowing hermit kingdoms to finance nuclear warheads. But half dozen of one, I guess.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#249

Post by arcticbull »

pas wrote: post #209
dheera wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might still be able to do it in Switzerland?

They will spend a lot of time to make sure you are not a US citizen. At least the big Swiss banks. And frankly any bank that wants to do business with/in the US/EU, or wants to process bankcards. If you want to launder money there are people for that, they will take your money, set uou5 up with legitimate businesses, put your money into other businesses and over some time those businesses will order a ton of shit fro…

Or, just go to a sketchy OTC desk, drop a burlap sack with a $ on it on their desk. They'll get you some USDT, then you USDT:USD at Coinbase, cash out and you're golden. Need a paper trail? Just sell your buddy an NFT of a cat or something.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#250

Post by betwixthewires »

dannyw wrote: post #128
thomasahle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash mostly isn't allowed today, if you are transferring large enough sums of money. Probably for the better.

Better for whom? Because it's the Wikileaks, Snowdens, and Extinction Rebellions that get hurt by laws like these. In terms of money laundering for the rich, that's all through 'fine art' and real estate.

Seriously, the number of people (maybe some aren't real people, who knows) that are applauding this, I am incredulous. Many of these people probably wouldn't pass up the opportunity to jump into every shit-on-america thread they stumble across to talk about how great privacy laws in Europe are.
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