Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#821

Post by jokoon » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:42 AM UTC

ozim wrote: post #357

jokoon wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, except restauration is one of the most obvious form of exploitation, where one works directly for the pleasure and luxury of one other person's desire. Most people know how to prepare food for themselves. I'm not against it, I'm just saying it's an expensive luxury which requires hard work.

Well it is not one other person's desire. There is bunch of restaurants/joints offering me to buy a burger or buy some food with them. Yes it is more expensive than cooking myself. But no one is making them to offer those. I am not going around making people to bring me food. Making food for one or two people is not that hard work as I mostly do it for myself or my GF or she is cooking. Making food for hundreds of pe…

What I meant was essentially that restaurants are the most prime example of economic servitude, cooking a meal for somebody else who has enough money to pay for it.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#822

Post by feoren » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:42 AM UTC

fergie wrote: post #768

grapehut wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, but would you also rather people unemployed than working for less than a living wage as well?

The answer is yes. In a functioning modern capitalist economy, workers must be able to choose if and where they work. A good way to think about this is to frame the question on yourself: should I be forced to work for less than a living wage? Should the state subsidise my employer in order for her to underpay me?

Hint to the downvoters: he's talking about Universal Basic Income. Please re-evaluate your downvote based on that.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#823

Post by railton » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:44 AM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #804

square_usual wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a cultural thing? I'm always surprised when I see American service workers complain about abusive customers, because in my region in South India I've very very rarely seen anyone abuse their servers. A few complaints, maybe, but no yelling or pressure. IME the class divide in India is wider, so it makes me even more confused.

I can only compare the USA and The UK but my experience is that the customer/server relationship in the USA often takes on a “master/subservient” tone whereas in the UK that kind of behaviour would be considered “posh” and somewhere between laughable and despicable by the majority.

This is my experience too comparing UK and USA. I worked as a cleaner for some summer schools at university and only the American students (c.f. UK and Japanese students who were also there) treated me like I was complete trash. It was very eye opening.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#824

Post by novok » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:46 AM UTC

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #640

leesalminen wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was young I worked at Dunkin’ Donuts. You’re right that we had 30 mins of cleaning after the store closed. We were paid for it and were never asked to clock out and work for free. But, sometimes on Friday nights we’d lock the doors 30 minutes early and clean just so we could get to enjoy our weekends 30 minutes sooner. That was pretty rare unless a manager happened to be there that evening and also wanted to g…

I worked a few fast food and restaurant jobs 10+ years ago and we were auto clocked out at closing, but were still required to clean up. I never did and I got let go 2 times for not working for free.

Probably depends on how competitive the market is for workers. When I was trying to get a minimum wage job, it took a while to get. Now it's probably relatively easily. In today's market, they wouldn't try that because those people would go to a place that wouldn't do that and implicitly pays more as a result.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#825

Post by jandrewrogers » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

armchairhacker wrote: post #642

Not trying to sound unsympathetic to those with struggling businesses, but: I don't get why there were so many restaurants in the first place. Everywhere I've been, it seems like there's literally 10+ restaurants per square mile. In cities it's 100+, not exaggerating. And it's not even unique restaurants either: in my local town there are multiple Mexican restaurants, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants, America…

Where I live, there is a high density of restaurants -- no corporate chains either -- and they are all packed full of people most days. I'd say it is a simple matter of supply and demand. There are so many restaurants because there are so many customers.

But you are correct that the restaurant business is terrible from an investment perspective. For some people, the restaurant business is their calling and what they know well, can't fault them for that even if the margins are poor.

It is like being a startup founder. Mostly a bad idea on a purely economic basis but many people feel compelled to do it.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#826

Post by toxik » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

mythrwy wrote: post #764

mjevans wrote: post #506

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Healthcare, retirement, everything required for living should be socialized. Old people today have Medicare and Social Security, but we need to finish the progression to Star Trek and just make sure there's enough to go around and that it does go around. The other part is that misery, fire bad customers and bad managers. It really isn't that difficult to be polite.

That's the dream, hopefully it comes to pass, but for now implementation remains problematic. How do you pay for it? Will it be run by the same entities that are having so much trouble balancing Social Security and preventing Medicare fraud?

Is Medicare fraud really a meaningful amount compared to how much it pays out? Europeans have had the same issue for decades, you can’t give things away without some grifting. But that’s part of the cost. Usually not a very large one either.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#827

Post by 14 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:54 AM UTC

vanviegen wrote: post #752

14 wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I get 15 paid sick days a year, 15 vacation days with an extra day added each year, and 12 lieu days that I get off but no pay. This was the first year having it. What a difference it makes to my mental well being. I spread my days off out so I get lots of 3 day weekends and I feel a lot less burnt out. The sick days are a big one. If my kid is sick or I hurt myself or I have a bad tooth or just feeling down…

From a European perspective, it boggles my mind that sick days can be limited. What happens when you run out? You get fired for not coming into work, I imagine?

Well if I ran out of sick days I can use some vacation days and if that ran out I could get a doctors note and go off on medical leave. It is like unemployment in a sense and I would be eligible for I believe 55% my wage while off. If I just needed a few extra days and not really wanted to deal with the hassle of medical leave paperwork I am in good standing with my employer and would simply need to ask and could have some unpaid sick days for sure. So essentially the 15 days is just what you can take off and be paid my the company. Also not all companies offer these benefits I work in health care.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#828

Post by arethuza » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 8:00 AM UTC

stevejb wrote: post #319

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

Guilt trip? I have never felt this ever. I pay a tip proportional to the service. 10% bad, 15% average, 20-25% for very good. As an American living in Australia, I really do miss tipping. I think that on average the restaurant service here is a lot lower. At most restaurants at the medium level (e.g. $25 hamburgers) you pay in advance, and then a waiter will bring the food to you when its ready. Do you need more wate…

I've always found service in restaurants in the US makes me rather uncomfortable - I don't want people acting so servile.

I remember being particularly unhappy about being served breakfast in Houston while I was there for a conference and being referred to as "sir" - I almost asked the waitress to stop but I realised that would probably cause even more problems so I stayed quiet.

So I would reject the idea that the service in US restaurants is somehow fundamentally "better" than elsewhere - it's just different and some of us actually regard that style of service as a negative.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#829

Post by 6510 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 8:01 AM UTC

doopy1 wrote: post #714

AgentOrange1234 wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses might ask customers to pay more. They might instead pay CEOs and investors less. Automation is coming regardless.

Most businesses are small businesses, not ones run by mega millionaire CEOs.

In a lot of small business it are the land lords who get the best deal by a huge margin.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#830

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 8:04 AM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #790

71a54xd wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and in states with lots of illegal immigration the actual price of "labor" is heavily depressed since they're willing to work for basically anything.

If it's depressed it's because business owners who hire undocumented immigrants (often knowingly, even assisting with GC/visa fraud to pass I9 verification) are never, ever fined or punished. Enforcement is a farce.

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