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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#501

Post by Johnny555 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #382
throwawayboise wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McDonald's and similar jobs used to be an entry level job for teens and college students. When I was 16 I was happy to work there for minimum wage ($3.35/hr at the time). Nobody other than the mangers did it to support a family. It was never understood to be that kind of job. I don't know how we got to the point where a no-skills-required job that anyone with a pulse can learn to do in a few hours suddenly became req…

I don't know how we got to the point where a no-skills-required job that anyone with a pulse can learn to do in a few hours suddenly became required to support a family of four. Deskilling, derisking, outsourcing. Companies used to run their own email, which required a competent mailadmin, nowadays you outsource it to Google or Microsoft.

Companies used to run their own email, which required a competent mailadmin, nowadays you outsource it to Google or Microsoft.

Most companies didn't hire a competent mail admin, their IT guy would run Exchange on the company fileserver as a part of his other duties.

Most of the large companies that used to hire a competent mail admin to run their mail servers still run their own mail servers.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#502

Post by mjevans »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #409
pizza234 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Europe, paying the salary off the book in large part, is very common.

And the hours are often longer off the books, since things like cleanup are sometimes not counted as worked hours.

I think restaurants pull that crap in the US too, by not scheduling enough on the clock hours for cleanup after the store closes. It's why you'll see places lock the doors even 30 min or more before the listed closing time.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#503

Post by tomc1985 »

kop316 wrote: post #235
yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

Business owners can raise their prices slowly. You know, boil the frog. Surely that prevents the harsh reactions that customers have to suddenly having the price raised?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#504

Post by tarmon »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #467
kop316 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

>> They are in the midwest (low taxes) Not in Minnesota, obviously.

Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin are higher than much of the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax#/media/File:T...

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#505

Post by olyjohn »

WalterBright wrote: post #412
flunhat wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in that example, Columbia made students big promises that it simply couldn’t deliver. It’s more like a deeply dishonest salesman than a hapless waiter who gets your order wrong. From James Stoteraux: > Many of the students in my class who didn’t turn their degrees into industry success were insanely talented, but Columbia traded on its reputation to sell them big dreams that it could never deliver. > During my 2n…

> scam There is a legal concept called "due diligence" where a party to a contract is expected to take reasonable steps to know what they're doing. Googling "starting salaries for [my major]" is a very, very low bar for due diligence. The posts in this thread absolving the student from making any effort whatsoever at due diligence is illustrative of the point I was making.

You expect a 15-17 year old to have the life experience to deal with this? They've been told exactly what to do their whole lives. Then they have been told how amazing and great and awesome they are, surely they won't be the ones coming out at that bottom wage.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#506

Post by mjevans »

Aloha wrote: post #500
browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

It's not just wages - like alot of what we can do is making shitty jobs less miserable, ensuring everyone gets some amount of vacation and sick time, insuring everyone has cheap or free healthcare access, ensuring everyone has relatively fixed schedule - eliminate punitive workplace policies, on stuff like attendance and other shit that makes being there miserable. Like, you can do a hell of alot to reduce peoples da…

Healthcare, retirement, everything required for living should be socialized. Old people today have Medicare and Social Security, but we need to finish the progression to Star Trek and just make sure there's enough to go around and that it does go around.

The other part is that misery, fire bad customers and bad managers. It really isn't that difficult to be polite.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#507

Post by loonster »

wernercd wrote: post #452
mdavis6890 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we are observing is the Demand Curve shifting left (people less interested in eating out) and the Supply Curve shifting down (the people willing to work in restaurants for any given wage is going down). Remember that supply and demand curves cover all wages/prices and quantities, they are not specific to a certain price/wage or quantity. This is observed as a shortage - more customers willing to buy a restaurant…

> The supply curve might shift back up if, for example, government wage supports are reduced. This is the key... the problem isn't really the market... it's the market interference. First COVID and the "lockdowns" (effective or not)... and then the resulting "free" money that makes it more lucrative to be on unemployment than working a job.

Max unemployment in my state is around $365. On top of that is a fed bonus of $300 (was formerly $600).

$665/40=$16.63

The financial incentive to not work is strong. Add in 40 extra hours of free time...

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#508

Post by greedo »

Spooky23 wrote: post #460
mdavis6890 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we are observing is the Demand Curve shifting left (people less interested in eating out) and the Supply Curve shifting down (the people willing to work in restaurants for any given wage is going down). Remember that supply and demand curves cover all wages/prices and quantities, they are not specific to a certain price/wage or quantity. This is observed as a shortage - more customers willing to buy a restaurant…

I don’t think so. Hilton Head Island, SC is a great example of the trend that COVID accelerated. Hilton Head is a popular vacation destination, but as development started radiating inland towards I95, all of the workers are priced out. The housekeeper at the hotel I stayed at in 2019 commuted 2.5 hours daily, and restaurants started reducing hours due to labor shortages. COVID made it worse, but the problem existed b…

I'm not sure a waiter at a good steakhouse is making a good living. It's been a while since I worked food service, so I might be making some poor assumptions, but:

1. Most waiters don't get health benefits 2. Most waiters don't get retirement plans 3. Most waiters are at the whim of the restaurant managers 4. There's only so many tables you can turn in a shift, and tips average under 20%. 5. Most waiters don't get any PTO

Say you have a four-top that has meal service of $120 (booze tips usually go to cocktail waitresses, wine goes to waiter). An average section for a "good" steakhouse will have no more than 5 tables per waiter; otherwise service sucks.

So each table earns the waiter $24 in tips. With 5 tables, that's $120 per turn. High end steakhouses don't turn fast; again, the appeal is having a long, hearty meal. So maybe 2.5 turns on a good night. That would be $300 in tips. But then you have to tip out. Busboy gets $25 (helps you turn faster, helps with some service), dishwasher gets $10 (should get $100), hostess gets $20 (so your section gets sat promptly), and at least $50 for the line cooks who are the real stars. Now you're done to $195. That needs to be reported as income, so it gets held back by mgmt for tax.

You get 3 good shifts a week, and 2 crap shifts. After a week you've made $195x3 plus $125x2 for a grand total (pretax) of $835/week. So your gross is $44K. I'm ignoring the base hourly wage because it's usually nothing.

$44k isn't bad money. It's above the nationwide median, but considering all the downsides, it's not "a good living." If you get sick, tough shit you lose out. If the chef jacks up the menu, you lose out. And it's a young person's gig. People want their waiters to be young and attractive, not balding and showing grey hairs.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#509

Post by grecy »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #356
yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

This has been tried many times, you are ignoring the reasons it did not work. The employees hate it because they make less money, forcing the restaurant to go back to tipping. It was effectively a pay cut for employees. It is not wage/revenue neutral because it changes customer behavior. Generally speaking, Americans are more generous when the money goes to directly to a service person than to a faceless business tha…

> This has been tried many times, you are ignoring the reasons it did not work

It works perfectly for many tens of millions of restaurant workers in two dozen developed countries around the world.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#510

Post by greedo »

mdavis6890 wrote: post #453
pixl97 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it matter if it's a technical shortage or just and observed one? The only thing preventing restaurants from changing their prices is the 'penguin on an iceberg' issue. You may be correct in raising your prices, but if other restaurants are willing to lose money longer before they raise their prices your business may suffer/fail because of it before the rest of the market changes their prices/wages.

Kinda, but not really. Remember that a shortage is an excess of demand at a given price. Meaning implicitly that, at the margin, prices could go up some small amount and there will still be a queue/line/excess of people willing to pay that marginally higher price. So as a restaurant, very roughly speaking, you basically can raise prices until the line starts to go away. Unfortunately customers can be very stubborn an…

Are customers that aware of price increases? Unless you're eating out at the same joint every day, a 10% increase isn't very noticeable. Say you have an item priced at $9.99, bumping it up 10% makes it $10.99.

Restaurant sales are rarely made up of price conscious buyers. Sure there's a limit, but short of the blue light special crowd, most customers are eating out for either variety, social reasons, or being tired of cooking.

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