Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#801

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #760

systemvoltage wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take a MBA-like focus to think "Gee..only if we had more margin, we'd pay more". This entire thread is totally out of touch with reality.

To be clear, you’re arguing that companies pay more when they increase their margin? The rest of this thread is out of touch for thinking otherwise? I don’t know, that definitely sounds like MBA-brain to me.

I read it as “in order to pay more, we’d need to find a way to create more (gross) margin” (often because net margins are already slim).

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#802

Post by HNfriend234 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

The truth though is that when the generous pandemic stimulus ends, the labor shortage will also end.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#803

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:01 AM UTC

lumost wrote: post #734

chaostheory wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that costs money. Are we as customers willing to pay for it? While a lot of us on HN can afford the price increases, not everyone else can. I have a feeling that wage increases will come, but there will be less employees and the remaining better paid employees will be augmented with technology in order to serve more customers ie more automation

When a deli closes up shop because they can't afford to hire people - it isn't for lack of customers interested in food. Food is a basic necessity that people will consume in as many varied forms as budget and tastes allow. The notion that a deli would simply close up shop because they couldn't hire people at a wage they deemed reasonable means they either couldn't be bothered to try higher prices/quality - or for so…

Around here, 16” cheese pizzas have gone from “around $10” just 8 months ago to “around $15”.

Pizza places that would be jammed from 6 to 8 PM with a line for pickup are now ghost towns. The one I was in last night at 8:15, workers outnumbered customers (dine-in plus pickup).

The roast beef place that I’d frequent on a particular errand went from $6.50 for a large roast beef to $9.50. What used to be a 15-deep line at lunch is now “walk straight to the register and order”.

Customers are only willing to pay so much for food. That well isn’t infinitely deep. (Maybe some of the gap is COVID, but people are out doing plenty of other things, other restaurants seem to be doing well, and these places were jammed during the pickup-only phases of COVID, so I think pricing is a significant driver of reduced volume.)

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#804

Post by jl6 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:01 AM UTC

square_usual wrote: post #773

acituan wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons are valid, but not unique to hospitality industry. I think we might be backgrounding one particular reason too much: customers are a headache. One of the subheadings of the article is "They're just yelling the entire time". I find it interesting that this hasn't been discussed as much, maybe because we are culpable? Maybe at one point of time we were that high maintenance customer? Maybe there is…

Is that a cultural thing? I'm always surprised when I see American service workers complain about abusive customers, because in my region in South India I've very very rarely seen anyone abuse their servers. A few complaints, maybe, but no yelling or pressure. IME the class divide in India is wider, so it makes me even more confused.

I can only compare the USA and The UK but my experience is that the customer/server relationship in the USA often takes on a “master/subservient” tone whereas in the UK that kind of behaviour would be considered “posh” and somewhere between laughable and despicable by the majority.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#805

Post by DubiousPusher » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:02 AM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #800

acituan wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons are valid, but not unique to hospitality industry. I think we might be backgrounding one particular reason too much: customers are a headache. One of the subheadings of the article is "They're just yelling the entire time". I find it interesting that this hasn't been discussed as much, maybe because we are culpable? Maybe at one point of time we were that high maintenance customer? Maybe there is…

Management culture shifted sometime ago, I've often said unions are a problem you earn. We are contributing here to the problem as a society, but management is often just outright hostile now in service sector jobs. Employees are treated as disposable fungible objects, with no inherent value. Like, There was a cultural shift some decades ago, and as corny as it sounds, the shift in culture began when we went from hav…

At eery restaurant job I worked and every restaurant job anyone in my family worked, the management was poor. Their worst sin was writing the schedule last minute every damn week and wielding it like a weapon. Get on the wrong side of the boss and you get the worst shifts posted at the last possible notice.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#806

Post by chii » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:05 AM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #657

jollybean wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. All the grocery stores and restaurants should close and we'll see how well that bodes for the local citizens. Edit, I'm being sarcastic. It's glib to suggest that somehow all of these businesses can just magically raise prices. It's a complex situation.

Yep, and when those stores and restaurants actually close down (just watch louis rossmanns videos about NYC), this means even more workers and even less workplaces, driving wages down. And unemployment has to be paid by someone too...

and this is a preview of what UBI would cause too.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#807

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:06 AM UTC

browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

>I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages.

That would mean the people running those businesses were in need of psychological help, it is pretty much crazy to close your business because you refuse to raise wages.

I propose a counter explanation - your business has a very tight margin - if you raise wages you cannot afford to continue in business unless you raise prices. If there is a competing business nearby and you raise prices you lose customers to competitor and you will have to go out of business - unless of course competitor also raises prices.

You and competitor(s) sit around waiting to see who will raise prices first, probably one of you closes up because they don't have enough workers.

The one who remains open gets customers, because of extra income from customers they might be able to raise wages. At any rate they can probably raise wages because competitor that closed can't just reopen without any down time.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#808

Post by pempem » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:09 AM UTC

chillwaves wrote: post #719

pempem wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants that are not franchises have a 50% failure rate. Margins are intensely tight and the largest cost is labor, not food, spoilage, advertising, interior design, or whatever else. The central government and state government take limited to no responsibility for healthcare, child care, retirement, sick leave, pto etc. The central justice system has agreed that corporations have a duty to their stakeholders abo…

https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/financing/mcdonalds...

Exactly! Thanks for sharing this. Currently the demand for higher wages is suddenly slightly more weighted towards the employee and yet McDonalds can pull out a three year timeline to get to $15 an hour, by which time inflation will make the increase insufficient

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#809

Post by bawolff » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:09 AM UTC

lumost wrote: post #734

chaostheory wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that costs money. Are we as customers willing to pay for it? While a lot of us on HN can afford the price increases, not everyone else can. I have a feeling that wage increases will come, but there will be less employees and the remaining better paid employees will be augmented with technology in order to serve more customers ie more automation

When a deli closes up shop because they can't afford to hire people - it isn't for lack of customers interested in food. Food is a basic necessity that people will consume in as many varied forms as budget and tastes allow. The notion that a deli would simply close up shop because they couldn't hire people at a wage they deemed reasonable means they either couldn't be bothered to try higher prices/quality - or for so…

> Food is a basic necessity that people will consume in as many varied forms as budget and tastes allow.

Food has supply and demand like anything else. People have to eat, but they don't have to eat at the delhi.

For example, if they charged $50 a sandwich it would probably not work. Maybe the business owner is just being stupid, but its also not impossible that they ran the numbers and they just didn't add up. That happens sometimes in business. I havent seen their books, i dont know what the numbers on their business look like.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#810

Post by snovv_crash » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 7:10 AM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #761

vanviegen wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a European perspective, it boggles my mind that sick days can be limited. What happens when you run out? You get fired for not coming into work, I imagine?

There's a few possibilities I can think of: * Unpaid sick days * The limitation is the other way around, they don't want to give a single pool of 30 paid days off, you're limited to 15 vacation days * If you have a good relationship with your manager, it's a soft limit and they'll allow you to go over as long as it's not abused * If you're part-time/hourly, trading days/hours with a co-worker Our HR department combin…

In Europe typically there are unlimited sick days, but the company has insurance to cover your salary after a certain number of days per year. You typically need a doctor's note after 3 consecutive days, and if you are abusing the system the insurance company (who is a pro at this) will quickly investigate and terminate / claw back their coverage.