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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#651

Post by eggsmediumrare »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #627
ahallock wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In high school, I worked at a fast food joint to make a little extra money. There were no expectations to pay rent or other essentials. But you'll say that it's not kids working these jobs, so we need to provide a livable wage. What about getting these people skills for better jobs? I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career.

>I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career. Why shouldn't Sandwich Maker be a viable career? They definitely contribute more to society than HR professionals or agile coaches.

Serving greasy heart attack patties might not be the most optimal example for an otherwise valid point.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#652

Post by avidiax »

71a54xd wrote: post #534
itsoktocry wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

One could argue the move to continue unemployment payments / covid payments is a strategy to "raise minimum wage" without actually having to pass any policy to do so. Politically it's brilliant, you gain the support of your voter base in 2yrs with the assumption that "cheap employers" will simply go out of business because nobody will work for them. And your more conservative base will champion you for "resisting to…

That's an interesting take, but it seems like a post-hoc rationale/strategy to me.

Conservatives will block any rise in the minimum wage, but couldn't completely block additional unemployment benefits.

Progressives would back a rise in the minimum wage, but had to deliver on relief for the unemployed working class, so they did just that.

The secondary effect of rising wages was probably only something that conservatives were expecting.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#653

Post by ajsnigrutin »

71a54xd wrote: post #534
itsoktocry wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

One could argue the move to continue unemployment payments / covid payments is a strategy to "raise minimum wage" without actually having to pass any policy to do so. Politically it's brilliant, you gain the support of your voter base in 2yrs with the assumption that "cheap employers" will simply go out of business because nobody will work for them. And your more conservative base will champion you for "resisting to…

The problem with both unemployment payments and UBI is, that someone has to pay them, and (in case of the first) they stop at some time.

If you get X money per month of unemployment and X+20% to work, then yeah, if it's not a fulfilling work (and let's be honest, what work at that price is fulfilling), you'll rather stay at home. Once the "free money" dries up, people will be forced to take the shitty jobs too, but due to many failed businesses, there will be even less jobs available, and this skews the jobs-vs-workers ratio, making wages even lower.

Making it easier (and cheaper) to start a business would create more jobs, raising the price of work, and replace the shitty jobs with better one (in terms of pay and conditions).

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#654

Post by saryant »

greedo wrote: post #515
patentatt wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this was in hypothetical terms, but do fry machines really cost $50k!?

No. Perhaps the fully automated/robotic type that McDonalds uses do, but any restaurant that is spending $50k per fryer is insane.

They really are that expensive, and not just the robotic ones.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#655

Post by Spooky23 »

greedo wrote: post #508
Spooky23 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so. Hilton Head Island, SC is a great example of the trend that COVID accelerated. Hilton Head is a popular vacation destination, but as development started radiating inland towards I95, all of the workers are priced out. The housekeeper at the hotel I stayed at in 2019 commuted 2.5 hours daily, and restaurants started reducing hours due to labor shortages. COVID made it worse, but the problem existed b…

I'm not sure a waiter at a good steakhouse is making a good living. It's been a while since I worked food service, so I might be making some poor assumptions, but: 1. Most waiters don't get health benefits 2. Most waiters don't get retirement plans 3. Most waiters are at the whim of the restaurant managers 4. There's only so many tables you can turn in a shift, and tips average under 20%. 5. Most waiters don't get an…

> It's above the nationwide median, but considering all the downsides, it's not "a good living."

I think well educated professionals sometime miss what reality is for millions of people. $44k for a few shifts is better and more reliable income than a retail gig. The similar premium gig for a low skill person is probably a janitor.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#656

Post by holidaygoose »

greedo wrote: post #508
Spooky23 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so. Hilton Head Island, SC is a great example of the trend that COVID accelerated. Hilton Head is a popular vacation destination, but as development started radiating inland towards I95, all of the workers are priced out. The housekeeper at the hotel I stayed at in 2019 commuted 2.5 hours daily, and restaurants started reducing hours due to labor shortages. COVID made it worse, but the problem existed b…

I'm not sure a waiter at a good steakhouse is making a good living. It's been a while since I worked food service, so I might be making some poor assumptions, but: 1. Most waiters don't get health benefits 2. Most waiters don't get retirement plans 3. Most waiters are at the whim of the restaurant managers 4. There's only so many tables you can turn in a shift, and tips average under 20%. 5. Most waiters don't get an…

Even with your understated numbers, with everything being as worse as possible, you ended up with a pretty decent wage for 5 evenings of work.

In reality, half of the US population lives in a state with a regular minimum wage for waiters (California, New York, Washington, and a bunch of other states), and the other half averages $5/hr which is $7800/yr if you work 30 hours a week. Also there's cash tips that aren't reported on taxes. And like others have said, you're estimating $30/person at a steakhouse which is TGI Fridays prices.

Put that together, and you're looking at the equivalent of six figures pre-tax for 5 nights of work, with no email at night or on-call. Sounds pretty good to me.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#657

Post by ajsnigrutin »

jollybean wrote: post #616
jackson1442 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business can’t afford to pay its employees enough make rent and buy groceries, perhaps it shouldn’t be a business?

Exactly. All the grocery stores and restaurants should close and we'll see how well that bodes for the local citizens. Edit, I'm being sarcastic. It's glib to suggest that somehow all of these businesses can just magically raise prices. It's a complex situation.

Yep, and when those stores and restaurants actually close down (just watch louis rossmanns videos about NYC), this means even more workers and even less workplaces, driving wages down.

And unemployment has to be paid by someone too...

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#658

Post by crooked-v »

greedo wrote: post #515
patentatt wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this was in hypothetical terms, but do fry machines really cost $50k!?

No. Perhaps the fully automated/robotic type that McDonalds uses do, but any restaurant that is spending $50k per fryer is insane.

McDonald's fryers are generally just standard commercial fryers with preset temperatures and timers. The only custom part is the (separate and standalone) machine that measures out standardized portions of fries into baskets, and while I'm sure they'd call it a trade secret it's really just a big plastic hopper and some sort of weight sensor arrangement.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#659

Post by _wp3r »

ericbarrett wrote: post #73

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

Social Media. Pretty much it. Toxic in a bottle, for profit. Well that and inflation.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#660

Post by crooked-v »

patentatt wrote: post #495
bluGill wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a certain amount of investment needed to keep going. If you are going to close the restaurant next year you can keep the current tables, otherwise replace them before they get too worn out. Or maybe it is the fry machine at the end of life, replace it for $50,000. If the restaurant continues for a few more years it is worth it, to fix/replace things, but if the restaurant is doomed it is better to cut your l…

I realize this was in hypothetical terms, but do fry machines really cost $50k!?

A standalone commercial fryer unit meant to be run 24/7 might cost you $1000-$2000 or so if you don't want any special features in it.
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