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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#531

Post by jandrewrogers »

grecy wrote: post #509
jandrewrogers wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been tried many times, you are ignoring the reasons it did not work. The employees hate it because they make less money, forcing the restaurant to go back to tipping. It was effectively a pay cut for employees. It is not wage/revenue neutral because it changes customer behavior. Generally speaking, Americans are more generous when the money goes to directly to a service person than to a faceless business tha…

> This has been tried many times, you are ignoring the reasons it did not work It works perfectly for many tens of millions of restaurant workers in two dozen developed countries around the world.

Those workers never had a choice. If it "works perfectly" then why do workers that do have a choice consistently choose to work in establishments where tipping is the norm? That's not a very convincing argument.

The bottom line is that it is the workers making the choice you disagree with, in pursuit of their own self-interest. It would be one thing if choosing one policy over the other was revenue-neutral to the restaurants and workers, but empirically that is not the case.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#532

Post by sakopov »

I can't wait to see how this will workout considering that a typically restaurant business runs on tiny margins. My prediction is quality is going to tank at most of our favorite places to eat (it actually already has). We'll have experienced pre-COVID service workers chasing better pay and benefits while restaurant businesses continue to hire and train those with no prior experience and continue paying same wages. In about a year or two we'll forget about all of this.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#534

Post by 71a54xd »

itsoktocry wrote: post #530
browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

> I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

One could argue the move to continue unemployment payments / covid payments is a strategy to "raise minimum wage" without actually having to pass any policy to do so. Politically it's brilliant, you gain the support of your voter base in 2yrs with the assumption that "cheap employers" will simply go out of business because nobody will work for them. And your more conservative base will champion you for "resisting to raise minimum wage".

I for one support raising minimum wage, but the automation / negative outcomes of menial labor being too expensive to hire for will happen whether or not the official minimum wage is increased. UBI is another debate entirely, however I'd also argue that UBI in time harms poor people more than it really helps them and just enriches huge companies and land-lords.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#535

Post by leesalminen »

mjevans wrote: post #502
isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the hours are often longer off the books, since things like cleanup are sometimes not counted as worked hours.

I think restaurants pull that crap in the US too, by not scheduling enough on the clock hours for cleanup after the store closes. It's why you'll see places lock the doors even 30 min or more before the listed closing time.

When I was young I worked at Dunkin’ Donuts. You’re right that we had 30 mins of cleaning after the store closed. We were paid for it and were never asked to clock out and work for free.

But, sometimes on Friday nights we’d lock the doors 30 minutes early and clean just so we could get to enjoy our weekends 30 minutes sooner.

That was pretty rare unless a manager happened to be there that evening and also wanted to go enjoy their weekend.

I honestly can’t think of anyone I worked with there that would’ve clocked out and worked for free. I think people would’ve quit quickly. There were like 5 other Dunkin franchisees in the county and they’d all hire you on the spot if you’d done the job before.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#536

Post by gruez »

nemetroid wrote: post #496
gruez wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>conditions then the problem isn't the stipend, is it? It's laughable to make that comparison when the "survival stipend" is money for doing nothing. I'm not sure how any private enterprise can compete with that.

> I'm not sure how any private enterprise can compete with that. By paying more, of course.

Private enterprise don't have access to a money printing press.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#537

Post by ashtonkem »

bluGill wrote: post #334
yupper32 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> McDonald's and similar jobs used to be an entry level job for teens and college students. When I was 16 I was happy to work there for minimum wage And who worked the day shift?

Spouses who needed to get out of the house while their other half was at work. They loved going to work with the same friends every day, chatting while cleaning up after the lunch shift... There was enough work to not be bored. There are a lot of people who like having a job, but don't really need the money. Those that need the money move up to management if they can.

> There are a lot of people who like having a job, but don't really need the money.

These people exist, I do not believe that any of them work at fast food restaurants. That’s an incredible amount of stress to put yourself through to “get out of the house” and meet new people.

> Those that need the money move up to management if they can.

I think you’re overestimating the size of management by quite a bit.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#538

Post by qwerty456127 »

mjevans wrote: post #506
Aloha wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just wages - like alot of what we can do is making shitty jobs less miserable, ensuring everyone gets some amount of vacation and sick time, insuring everyone has cheap or free healthcare access, ensuring everyone has relatively fixed schedule - eliminate punitive workplace policies, on stuff like attendance and other shit that makes being there miserable. Like, you can do a hell of alot to reduce peoples da…

Healthcare, retirement, everything required for living should be socialized. Old people today have Medicare and Social Security, but we need to finish the progression to Star Trek and just make sure there's enough to go around and that it does go around. The other part is that misery, fire bad customers and bad managers. It really isn't that difficult to be polite.

> Healthcare, retirement, everything required for living should be socialized.

Indeed. Many small businesses can't even afford sponsoring a sick leave directly AFAIK. At my location (in Europe) you pay a part of your monthly wage to the social security fund and once you get sick it covers your salary in the amount like if you kept working (and also pays you basic pension once you get too old).

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#539

Post by martinmakesgame »

mjevans wrote: post #506
Aloha wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just wages - like alot of what we can do is making shitty jobs less miserable, ensuring everyone gets some amount of vacation and sick time, insuring everyone has cheap or free healthcare access, ensuring everyone has relatively fixed schedule - eliminate punitive workplace policies, on stuff like attendance and other shit that makes being there miserable. Like, you can do a hell of alot to reduce peoples da…

Healthcare, retirement, everything required for living should be socialized. Old people today have Medicare and Social Security, but we need to finish the progression to Star Trek and just make sure there's enough to go around and that it does go around. The other part is that misery, fire bad customers and bad managers. It really isn't that difficult to be polite.

Thanks for saying this. I feel that a lot of the time people forget about post scarcity. People can focus on the dystopia but I feel that it's important to remember there are other options. A lot of us are already living post scarcity and helping others. We are so close to limitless energy generation it is a matter of when not if it happens. Thanks

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#540

Post by awillen »

browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

I think that for a lot of businesses, it's a question of what will happen when extended unemployment ends in September.

If employees are going to flood the market and you can keep paying the wages you were paying pre-pandemic, then it makes sense to hold out, since if you raise wages now, you can't really reduce them later. You lose out on sales now because you're short staffed, but you keep your costs low in perpetuity.

On the other hand, if that's not going to happen, then clearly you should raise wages and prices now, so you don't miss out on those sales.

At this point, though, I think the folks who raise wages/prices because they think the latter case is true are going to cause a significant enough rise in the effective minimum wage (not the legal one, but the least you can practically pay and actually get employees) that everyone's going to have to raise wages anyway.

It's an interesting game theory problem - if everyone's going to hold out on pay raises, then you should too. If a critical mass of people are going to raise wages in the next few months, though, then you should raise wages ASAP to get the best employees and not miss out on a summer of sales. Luckily this appears to be one of the rare game theory problems that'll actually work out well for the little guy.

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