Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#781

Post by flippertheD » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:59 AM UTC

flippertheD wrote: post #769

Nekhrimah wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this fiasco Your comment is informative, but, come on. This "fiasco" is supply in demand in action. When it (occasionally) favours the workers, it doesn't deserve to be described so negatively.

Well, sure. Just keep in mind how supply chains are working right now. Fiasco / failure - well, most workers didn't even get raises yearly to keep up with annual inflation. I'd say that's negative, although the market "working". Where is the equilibrium then? The balance will be found but at what detriment to society on numerous levels? How many people don't have healthcare? How many people work three jobs? All this…

Oh yea, and although we have made "progress", we must all hail the great economy structures we currently have that leaves out environmental externalities. This wonderful society and world where almost all living systems are in decline. To stay on topic with restaurant workers. Remember how hard those people in the kitchen work, many of them who don't speak english and make a set hourly rate, while all the people in the front of the house make massive tips that they don't have to share. just sayin...

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#782

Post by kortilla » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:00 AM UTC

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #553

browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

Not sure how it is in the US but where I live restaurant owners are wealthy entrepreneurs driving around expensive SUVs. Every sunny day the restaurants and bars are packed from morning until midnight. If they need more staff they have the money to pay better wages. That's how every other industry deals with labour shortages.

In the US restaurants are very cutthroat and what you describe only applies only to the most popular restaurants. It’s trivial to start a restaurant in the US so many people do an fail terribly after a year.

Restaurants are the worst fucking industry to invest in.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#783

Post by asciident » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:02 AM UTC

Sophistifunk wrote: post #592

In two years we're going to see a lot fewer eat-in restaurants, a lot more kitchen-only joints, and those kids who used to be wait staff will be on the dole, or marching in the streets. Much like movie theatres, cheap quality dining is going away.

I would be thrilled if kitchen-only joints replaced sit-down restaurants. I have about 20 sit-downs within walking distance, only about 5 are easy for takeout, none which serve higher-end food. If there were a few higher-end food options ($20 lunch instead of $10 lunch, $30 dinner instead of $15 dinners), especially without having to deal with tipping, I would carry out and eat at home a lot more. I have my own silverware, wine bottles, and napkins.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#784

Post by ryanobjc » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:07 AM UTC

avidiax wrote: post #652

71a54xd wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue the move to continue unemployment payments / covid payments is a strategy to "raise minimum wage" without actually having to pass any policy to do so. Politically it's brilliant, you gain the support of your voter base in 2yrs with the assumption that "cheap employers" will simply go out of business because nobody will work for them. And your more conservative base will champion you for "resisting to…

That's an interesting take, but it seems like a post-hoc rationale/strategy to me. Conservatives will block any rise in the minimum wage, but couldn't completely block additional unemployment benefits. Progressives would back a rise in the minimum wage, but had to deliver on relief for the unemployed working class, so they did just that. The secondary effect of rising wages was probably only something that conservati…

Disagree, many progressives totally also expected prices to rise.

The alternative of forcing people to go to work while covid-19 sick, or being laid off and facing total abject poverty, and such... well not very attractive.

Prices & wages going up was going to be inevitable with inflation, which was on the plate, even if unemployment was never expanded and we forced the working poor to work, or eat our of dumpsters.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#785

Post by bkav » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:08 AM UTC

square_usual wrote: post #773

acituan wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons are valid, but not unique to hospitality industry. I think we might be backgrounding one particular reason too much: customers are a headache. One of the subheadings of the article is "They're just yelling the entire time". I find it interesting that this hasn't been discussed as much, maybe because we are culpable? Maybe at one point of time we were that high maintenance customer? Maybe there is…

Is that a cultural thing? I'm always surprised when I see American service workers complain about abusive customers, because in my region in South India I've very very rarely seen anyone abuse their servers. A few complaints, maybe, but no yelling or pressure. IME the class divide in India is wider, so it makes me even more confused.

I believe so. When I was working in customer service, I had an English coworker. He said that the way customers treated us regularly would probably never have happened in England. Not once. Things haven’t gotten better since then.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#786

Post by xyzzyz » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

lumost wrote: post #762

xyzzyz wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why shouldn't a teenager make 20 an hour? It's not that he "shouldn't". Rather, many businesses cannot afford to both pay teenage employees $20/h, and also to not raise the prices. Some businesses can raise prices just fine, but others are not able to, as the customers will stop buying at higher price point. For example, if all groceries doubled their food prices, I'd still buy food (though maybe less than before),…

However if all groceries doubled their prices then all workers would demand higher wages to compensate. Other businesses would need to become more efficient with their labor or reduce margins. In the short-term this means CEOs get paid less, and investors see higher ROI in labor efficient business models. It's obvious that teenagers can't make 1k/hr without breaking the economy - but I don't see any reason why $20/hr…

All workers demand higher wages at all times. Workers demanding higher wages stronger and harder won't raise aggregate wages by much, as there is only so much that is actually being produced, and aggregate wages can pretty much only be increased through increase in aggregate supply: the margins are already pretty thin, especially in retail and food service business, and the CEO pay is pretty small component in grand scheme of things (CEOs also don't actually consume much of their earnings, they invest most of it, so you can't actually transfer much of consumption from them to workers).

> Given the advances in technology that have driven a more than 2x increase in real economic productivity over that period why shouldn't the starting wage be $20/hr for teenagers?

The growth in economic productivity hasn't been uniformly distributed across industries, and it's been pretty low exactly in the industries depending on cheap, low skill labor. What are the advances in technology between now and 1981 that made restaurants 2x more productive?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#787

Post by akiselev » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

vanviegen wrote: post #752

14 wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I get 15 paid sick days a year, 15 vacation days with an extra day added each year, and 12 lieu days that I get off but no pay. This was the first year having it. What a difference it makes to my mental well being. I spread my days off out so I get lots of 3 day weekends and I feel a lot less burnt out. The sick days are a big one. If my kid is sick or I hurt myself or I have a bad tooth or just feeling down…

From a European perspective, it boggles my mind that sick days can be limited. What happens when you run out? You get fired for not coming into work, I imagine?

The Family and Medical Leave Act protects most (IANAL) employees for up to 12 weeks of unpaid time off per year at the federal level. At some point Americans with Disabilities Act protections kick in and after a few months of a serious illness temporary or permanent disability insurance comes into play.

It's not the dystopia its made out to be but even in the best states the inconsistencies between the layers of protection and myriad of rules cause a lot of people to fall through the cracks.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#788

Post by blooalien » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:21 AM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #386

blooalien wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If society actively encouraged the creation of more positive ways to contribute positive things, I bet we'd see an "organic" growth in numbers of people choosing to do so. Example; There've been some pretty positive things happening around community gardens in some places (when they're not being attacked by self-appointed neighborhood Nannies that don't like to see people gathering together around something beneficia…

You could introduce a negative income tax (to implement UBI) and then increase your tax credits by joining community groups or going to college. Competitive groups could then receive more tax credits based on their ranking. Instead of career tracks you will be offered volunteer tracks. However, this is a complex solution to the problem and it is prone to being gutted because it will be seen as socialist and once ther…

> "because it will be seen as socialist"

Yeah, that just took the wind outta my sails. I literally give up trying to restore my hopes for humanity or any sort of better future for myself or anyone else. We're all fucked. I need to just accept that.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#789

Post by durnygbur » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:23 AM UTC

vanviegen wrote: post #752

14 wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I get 15 paid sick days a year, 15 vacation days with an extra day added each year, and 12 lieu days that I get off but no pay. This was the first year having it. What a difference it makes to my mental well being. I spread my days off out so I get lots of 3 day weekends and I feel a lot less burnt out. The sick days are a big one. If my kid is sick or I hurt myself or I have a bad tooth or just feeling down…

From a European perspective, it boggles my mind that sick days can be limited. What happens when you run out? You get fired for not coming into work, I imagine?

From European perspective, yes the sick days absolutely can be limited - see Poland or Czechia. When you run out you better have acquaintances among doctors and at the appropriate public offices. Otherwise you're sick, fired, no income.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#790

Post by akiselev » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 6:27 AM UTC

71a54xd wrote: post #698

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with both unemployment payments and UBI is, that someone has to pay them, and (in case of the first) they stop at some time. If you get X money per month of unemployment and X+20% to work, then yeah, if it's not a fulfilling work (and let's be honest, what work at that price is fulfilling), you'll rather stay at home. Once the "free money" dries up, people will be forced to take the shitty jobs too, but d…

Yep, and in states with lots of illegal immigration the actual price of "labor" is heavily depressed since they're willing to work for basically anything.

If it's depressed it's because business owners who hire undocumented immigrants (often knowingly, even assisting with GC/visa fraud to pass I9 verification) are never, ever fined or punished.

Enforcement is a farce.