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EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

bbc.com

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Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#161

Post by programmarchy »

Barrin92 wrote: post #75
ushakov wrote: post #31

i'm shocked how ignorant these lawmakers are, trying to gain control over a decentralised structure nobody asked them for this and even if this change ends up in bitcoin's core, it will ultimately fail to reach consensus our wallets are none of your business, EU, get out!

>nobody asked them for this I very much support the policy. Anonymous money pretty much serves one thing uniquely well which is avoiding the law, sanctions, laundering money, buying drugs or funding crime and I don't think any society has interest in having these markets exist outside of the purview of the state.

So, you're a third wave prohibitionist? How progressive!

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#162

Post by repsilat »

d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

When it comes to small financial transactions, society is at least comfortable people who choose privacy over transparency. Some places have banned businesses from only accepting card/electronic payments, but I'm not aware of anywhere that has banned businesses from only accepting cash.

That said, you're probably right in the long run. Cash is already less convenient, and it's only a matter of time until it's gone. The "transparency" argument will win, for the arguments you've outlined: "tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing" and anything the government can prosecute under those descriptions. And to add to the list, non-accredited investors having a flutter, people spreading disinformation, people we don't like etc.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#163

Post by BiteCode_dev »

d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

It's only transparency for us, big players still have means of privacy.

The gov do care about what you buy.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#164

Post by honzzz »

tamrix wrote: post #152
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Society can vote with its wallet.

I think that the majority considers the system where a few billionaires can outvote everyone else to be the bad thing we are trying to avoid.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#165

Post by knuthsat »

elmo2you wrote: post #101
stavros wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't see anything, basically. You can only see your own wallet and transactions, and (AFAIK) you can't even see who sent you funds.

So, then how does that technically work? How will integrity be verified/guaranteed? If it's just an application level shielding, as in a separation between user software that can't access the information but a layer/cluster of infrastructure software that can, then I'm not so sure if its nothing more than rather meaningless cosmetics. Do you by any change have some references as to how this would work? because I sinc…

Monero is completely private.

Confidential transactions combined with bulletproofs [0] are an efficient way to deal with the added privacy.

You cannot see who sent you the amount. Blockchain is fully encrypted and you cannot see any amounts or transaction sender/receiver.

0: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8418611/

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#167

Post by lottin »

realcertify wrote: post #149
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

I would argue with "society has clearly chosen" statement. The governments are putting more and more strict regulations in place for last decades and they often don't care what the society thinks about those. There used to be a time not long ago when one could show up in bank with a bunch of cash and it would be of no issue. I don't think that terrorism was less important back then.

Do you mean not long ago when the government budget was 1% of GDP? Nowadays it's 40-60%, in developed countries. Large levels of public spending are a choice that we have made as a society, and the spending needs to be funded somehow.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#168

Post by [deleted] »

beervirus wrote: post #126
arthurcolle wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not right - pretty much all modern wallet software generates brand new key pairs each time there is a transaction, thereby creating a new address. The unspent utxo's (unspent transaction outputs) are then sent to the new address and the old address can (but shouldn't) be used.

But anyone can see the new address to which the utxo's were sent...

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#170

Post by onion2k »

mannerheim wrote: post #153
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

If society chose transparency over privacy by implanting listening devices in every individual, would that be acceptable?

To me as a privacy-aware nerd, no. That would be a step too far.

To every person who downloads random phone apps and gives them mic permissions, who has Siri or Alexa listening all the time, or who has a Nest doorbell recording their street... probably?

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