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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

One could argue the move to continue unemployment payments / covid payments is a strategy to "raise minimum wage" without actually having to pass any policy to do so. Politically it's brilliant, you gain the support of your voter base in 2yrs with the assumption that "cheap employers" will simply go out of business because nobody will work for them. And your more conservative base will champion you for "resisting to…

Perhaps depressed wages are partly to blame for the lack of automation in the current economy. If there is labor scarcity it may unlock new innovations by forcing market participants to find more productive uses of labor.

Labor force participation has been falling for a long time as labor sellers (employees) fail to find an adequate price for their labor from employers (the buyer). Many economists assumed this was the fault of the labor seller for not having skills attractive to buyers. It's also possible that in certain segments employers were using labor in-efficiently, or simply miss-pricing the value of a worker.

Which is a long winded way of saying that a higher minimum wage may bring more labor into the market, while simultaneously forcing businesses to leverage automation to improve the productivity of said labor.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career. Why shouldn't Sandwich Maker be a viable career? They definitely contribute more to society than HR professionals or agile coaches.

This is not a great hill to die on, but I’ll bite a bit. If I fundamentally disagree with fast food as objects of consumption than I might think every job in this field should not be viable. There are costs to society (“externalities”) that places like Wendy’s are not held responsible for (obesity epidemic). All said, Sandwich Maker is a viable career, to me, if its in a boutique/gourmet shop where the food is prepar…

“There is an art to the business of making sandwiches which it is given to few ever to find the time to explore in depth. It is a simple task, but the opportunities for satisfaction are many and profound: choosing the right bread for instance. The Sandwich Maker had spent many months in daily consultation and experiment with Grarp the baker and eventually they had between them created a loaf of exactly the consistency that was dense enough to slice thinly and neatly, while still being light, moist and having that fine nutty flavour which best enhanced the savour of roast Perfectly Normal Beast flesh.

There was also the geometry of the slice to be refined: the precise relationships between the width and height of the slice and also its thickness which would give the proper sense of bulk and weight to the finished sandwich: here again, lightness was a virtue, but so too were firmness, generosity and that promise of succulence and savour that is the hallmark of a truly intense sandwich experience.

The proper tools, of course, were crucial, and many were the days that the Sandwich Maker, when not engaged with the Baker at his oven, would spend with Strinder the Tool Maker, weighing and balancing knives, taking them to the forge and back again. Suppleness, strength, keenness of edge, length and balance were all enthusiastically debated, theories put forward, tested, refined, and many was the evening when the Sandwich Maker and the Tool Maker could be seen silhouetted against the light of the setting sun and the Tool Maker’s forge making slow sweeping movements through the air trying one knife after another, comparing the weight of this one with the balance of another, the suppleness of a third and the handle binding of a fourth.

Three knives altogether were required. First there was the knife for the slicing of the bread: a firm, authoritative blade which imposed a clear and defining will on a loaf. Then there was the butter-spreading knife, which was a whippy little number but still with a firm backbone to it. Early versions had been a little too whippy, but now the combination of flexibility with a core of strength was exactly right to achieve the maximum smoothness and grace of spread.

The chief amongst the knives, of course, was the carving knife. This was the knife that would not merely impose its will on the medium through which it moved, as did the bread knife; it must work with it, be guided by the grain of the meat, to achieve slices of the most exquisite consistency and translucency, that would slide away in filmy folds from the main hunk of meat. The Sandwich Maker would then flip each sheet with a smooth flick of the wrist on to the beautifully proportioned lower bread slice, trim it with four deft strokes and then at last perform the magic that the children of the village so longed to gather round and watch with rapt attention and wonder. With just four more dexterous flips of the knife he would assemble the trimmings into a perfectly fitting jigsaw of pieces on top of the primary slice. For every sandwich the size and shape of the trimmings were different, but the Sandwich Maker would always effortlessly and without hesitation assemble them into a pattern which fitted perfectly. A second layer of meat and a second layer of trimmings, and the main act of creation would be accomplished.” ― Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#743
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just wages - like alot of what we can do is making shitty jobs less miserable, ensuring everyone gets some amount of vacation and sick time, insuring everyone has cheap or free healthcare access, ensuring everyone has relatively fixed schedule - eliminate punitive workplace policies, on stuff like attendance and other shit that makes being there miserable. Like, you can do a hell of alot to reduce peoples da…

All of those reasons are valid, but not unique to hospitality industry. I think we might be backgrounding one particular reason too much: customers are a headache. One of the subheadings of the article is "They're just yelling the entire time". I find it interesting that this hasn't been discussed as much, maybe because we are culpable? Maybe at one point of time we were that high maintenance customer? Maybe there is…

I highly second this.

I've worked retail before (Apple Retail, Genius Bar specifically, so probably one of the more decent and better paid retail jobs in the grand scheme of things), and dealing with customers was one of the primary reasons I changed careers.

You only need so many people looking down on you because of nothing other than your job, to make you want to do something else.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#744
post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses might ask customers to pay more. They might instead pay CEOs and investors less. Automation is coming regardless.

Most businesses are small businesses, not ones run by mega millionaire CEOs.

In terms of registrations, sure, but what about surface area? I can only think of very small pockets of places where the heavy majority of establishments are part of some megacorp

The suburbs are especially bad....

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my time at Caltech, all the AY students knew that the job prospects were nil. They did double majors, one for fun, one for money. This was long before Google. The starting salaries for each major were common knowledge, too. I don't buy that film students did not know this until after graduation.

What about the CH students?

You mean Chemistry? They commanded the best offers at the time.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#746

Not trying to sound unsympathetic to those with struggling businesses, but: I don't get why there were so many restaurants in the first place. Everywhere I've been, it seems like there's literally 10+ restaurants per square mile. In cities it's 100+, not exaggerating. And it's not even unique restaurants either: in my local town there are multiple Mexican restaurants, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants, America…

I think brand awareness plays a role here. A low quality restaurant can stay in business forever because many people don’t do a lot of research (foot traffic, ordering online, etc). I live in a city and it takes a long time to learn what restaurants are good and bad. Probably plays a role in why there are so many - you can do a bad job and still stick around, at least for now.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#747

Covid has made me question eating out at all. It’s trivial to cook something that’s better tasting and healthier than fast food, most cafes. With all the practice in the last year, it’s not hard to come close to my favorite upscale restaurants for 1/4 of the price. I don’t need to find a recipe, I can “just cook” now. Eating out seems like an antiquated division of labor given how streamlined procurement (grocery del…

Disagree. Any time I eat out it’s because acquiring the ingredients would be incredibly difficult or expensive, or I lack the skill/tools to do it.

Sushi, most ethnic food, high quality locally sourced ingredients, pizza oven, etc. Heck even a sandwich from jimmy John’s - I eat meat once a week or so so a making my own salami sandwich would mean wasting a ton of food.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#748

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

I think that for a lot of businesses, it's a question of what will happen when extended unemployment ends in September. If employees are going to flood the market and you can keep paying the wages you were paying pre-pandemic, then it makes sense to hold out, since if you raise wages now, you can't really reduce them later. You lose out on sales now because you're short staffed, but you keep your costs low in perpetu…

"it's a question of what will happen when extended unemployment ends in September."

Anarchy. I don't see this happening. Getting people off those checks sounds impossible - if you want to win another election.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#749
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or automate 99% of the business and free these poor souls from a mundane existence. Also, I think we should support them w/ safety net (see basically andrew yang's platform). I don't see anyone screaming about ditch digging jobs or dishwashers saying we should "save those jobs!" . Backhoes and automatic dishwashers have freed people from meaningless work. We should do the same for everything we can. There's a stereot…

It’s not socially efficient to spend all our effort trying to automate things. This happens naturally as wages required to hire people for a given task increase and automation gets cheaper. The natural progression of the situation in the article is that wages go up, increasing the viability of automation, so you’ll get your wish (in this context) soon enough. If we “freed” people from work with welfare, 99.9% of reci…

When I traveled to Geneva 4 years ago I marveled at the efficiency of every service and labor job I saw. The prevailing wage for a grocery store clerk is ~35 USD per hour in Geneva.

The Restaurant workers had portable credit card stations to ensure they didn't have to run back and forth to a central register. The garbage trucks had automated arms for picking up trash bins. A busy restaurant had ~1/3rd the staff of a similar restaurant in the US. This compares to my condo association which recently hired snow shovelers who don't have a snow blower because they were cheaper than the ones with a snow blower!

There is no employment crises in Switzerland, and by simple inspection I'd believe that the American service/labor sector could absorb the 3-6x improvement in productivity present internationally without an existential crises.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career. Why shouldn't Sandwich Maker be a viable career? They definitely contribute more to society than HR professionals or agile coaches.

You realize wages based on supply and demand are very accurate at measuring exactly how much value to “society” a job brings? You may disagree but economic equilibrium in the price of a common good such as an agile coach is telling you exactly how much value society believes that job brings.

That's a nice abstraction, but actual wages are determined individuals convincing other individuals they should be paid a specific wage. That's about their power to extract value.

Value creation can be used to increase that power, but there are many organizations (picture the NCAA or your favorite employer of H-1B1s maybe?) that have put in the hard work to make sure the work of value creation doesn't give individuals too much power to extract value.

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