My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown • Hacker News Board

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#451

Post by nineplay » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #369

nineplay wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

I don't understand the mention of "Judeo/Christian background"[0] or the invocation of race where religion is concerned (cultural is downstream of religion, anyway), but in any case, it is true, based on what I have read, that "American Buddhism" as practiced in the United States is sort of a consumerist ethos dressed up in Buddhist garb. The case is similar where Hinduism is concerned. The phrase "I am God" coming f…

Thank you for pointing that out, it is an unfortunate shorthand and I should stay away from it. I tend to use it as a hand-wavy way to say "fair-skinned Americans who probably celebrated Christmas or Hanukkah growing up" but I'll stop.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#452

Post by tyjen » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

avalys wrote: post #387

This thread is blowing my mind, although not for the obvious reason. I’m just astounded by all the anecdotes people are mentioning here that suggest meditation, mindfulness, etc. actually work , even the secularized, distorted, popularized versions we get here in the West. Previously I just assumed this was all a bunch of wackadoo woo-woo bullshit designed to separate dissatisfied California yuppies from their money.…

Yes, it's surprising to people outside the retreat meditation community. If I read this blog entry prior to folding meditation practice into my daily life, I'd be equally surprised. There is a lot of commercialization and Westernized metaphysical woo-woo stuff to sift through to discover the type of meditation discussed in Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, or Dhammapada, so the initial and superficial impression of meditation generally perceived from a Yoga class at the local strip mall or YouTube guided meditations are of different varietals. The perception being that meditation is terrific for destressing and wouldn't lead to a psychotic break.

When you start to peel back the conditioning layers that define you, the sensations that reveal themselves can become destabilizing if you choose to focus on those distractions instead of allowing them to pass and refocus on the meditation object. If you're not prepared for what lies ahead and/or do not have a devoted mentor, the strands that define you and serve as identity reference points can snap leaving you with an existential crisis.

Also, while many meditation retreats and programs are designed to separate yuppies from their money, the retreats I'm familiar with operate on a donation basis to remain open for everyone independent of financial status.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#453

Post by eurasiantiger » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #180

eurasiantiger wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhism is not a religion per se. I’m sure there are cults around it, but as Dalai Lama put it: if science shows Buddhism to be wrong, then Buddhism must change. Good luck finding that sentiment in any actual religion. If you require more proof, make it a priority to seek understanding of ”Buddha-nature”.

"Buddhism is not a religion per se." There are many types of Buddhism, and some types are definitely very religious. Take Pure Land Buddhism[1][2], for example, one of the most popular forms of Buddhism in Japan, believers of which essentially pray to the Buddha for salvation and hope to be reborn in a heavenly land. It has some interesting similarities to Christianity. Buddhism as it's actually practiced in parts of…

Here’s what they have in common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_points_unifying_Theravād...

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#454

Post by hunter-gatherer » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

Wow. Like a few others have commented, I'm surprised to see the amount of positive associations people have had with meditation. I'll admit, I definitely never thought the benefits of meditation were anything more than the placebo effect, though I've also never had reason to give meditation any real thought as a solution to my problems, because I've fortunately always been able to cope and function through them to find solutions. This article definitely opened my eyes a bit, however.

That being said, I've been actively weight lifting or doing other sports since I was a teenager, and I often wonder if that has helped contribute to my successes. For example, proper weight training takes years of practice to develop a solid mind-muscle connection, and I find both the moments between sets and the repetitions themselves help train mental focus. This is especially true with heavy weight lifting because you need to visualize the movement before you do it, and as you're going through the movement you need to focus carefully on your muscle tension throughout your body.

For those who have never seriously trained, it is probably easy to dismiss that weight training can have a positive impact on one's ability to focus. I assure you, a few sets of heavy squats takes a toll on the nervous system as well as the musculoskeletal system. Likewise, I find that when I am in a proper training regimen, it is easier to eat better and easier to sleep deeper.

I've never done any guided meditation, so if there are any active athletes who have practiced meditation as described in the article, I'd be interested to here your thoughts.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#455

Post by eurasiantiger » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:09 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #228

qwerty456127 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is faith in the effectiveness of the Eightfold Path, the Buddha, and the Sangha all that different from Christian faith in God Unlike the Christian G-d, the Buddha does not judge, does not punish, does not forgive and has not died in tortures for your sins, this way enabling priests demand you feel guilty. AFAIK the Buddha taught you should pursue the Eightfold Path as a tool to attain your ultimate goal, not as a…

"Unlike the Christian G-d, the Buddha does not judge, does not punish, does not forgive and has not died in tortures for your sins, this way enabling priests demand you feel guilty." The gods are not the same, but the faith seems very similar to me. What is the difference between a Pure Land Buddhist believing chanting the nenbutsu[1] ("I take refuge in the Buddha of Inconceivable Light!") in order to get in to ensur…

Did Buddha teach rebirth from life to life, or from moment to moment? Given the context of the Teaching, the latter seems a better fit.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#456

Post by eurasiantiger » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

the_doctah wrote: post #366

eurasiantiger wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does ”you” ”swimming” or ”drowning” ”in” spatially experienced consciousness make sense?

>spatially experienced consciousness I understand it's supposed to be an abstract concept, but this statement still doesn't make sense

You experience your surroundings spatially through your senses every day. In the ordinary state of consciousness, this is sometimes called sense-experience. Now imagine experiencing your consciousness — cognition, feelings, memories — as the state of a boundless ocean, ”you” in this case being the ocean experiencing itself in this way.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#457

Post by __MatrixMan__ » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

ljm wrote: post #130

stelonix wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I took from it. He uses the terms "mindfulness" and "Buddhism" interchangeably, but they're not. Buddhism has ways to deal with meditations that "go bad", but mindfulness takes the Buddhism out of the practice. Mindfulness is not Buddhism.

I wouldn't conflate mindfulness (or capital M mindfulness, you could say) with meditation either. Meditation has always been a deeply spiritual practice; Mindfulness attempts to turn it into a psychological, clinical one.

Agreed that you shouldn't conflate them, but there are many types of meditation that you can practice and:

- not all are rooted in spirituality

- some are directly related to mindfulness

I find that if I meditate regularly, I'm more likely to catch myself practicing mindfulness by accident in my daily life. In those moments I usually discover something about my surroundings that I didn't know before. Really practical stuff, like an unexplored trail that's a better way to take on my commute home from work.

Intentionally practicing mindfulness is fine, but for me it's the cases of being mindful without explicitly setting the intention that make it worthwhile. They're really pleasant, nothing spiritual about it.

And meditation is linked to those moments because, if I'm lucky, it causes them.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#458

Post by jmfldn » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

thinkyfish wrote: post #441

I've found that many people (myself included) start down the path of Vipassana(analysis) type of meditation too early or from a position where we weren't prepared for the consequences. I wish I had spent more time with metta(compassion) and samatha (calmness) meditation and build up stability/forbearance and kindness/compassion first before starting to de-construct experience. It is said that one type of meditation l…

Strongly agree. It seems quite common in the west to go into the deep end without the necessary foundations. Certain ethical behaviours, strong compassion for others, a desire to do this for the good of the world not just for yourself etc. These are all essential parts of any spiritual path and just trying to reach straight for insight is potentially dangerous imho. I'm not a Buddhist as such but for me every aspect of the eightfold path is utterly essential and mutually supporting.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#459

Post by thevardanian » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #436

thevardanian wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... That's exactly what the "you're just doing Buddhism wrong" crowd is saying. There's a vast variety of methodologies and approaches to meditation, that come with their own effects, some bad some good. This is all quite well documented among the practitioners over the centuries. And beyond documentation, that's also why it's heavily suggested that one have guru or someone to actively guide and judge "progress…

The study was looking at guided meditation which consisted of 60% of it’s sample. So, suggesting a guide on it’s own doesn’t solve the issue.

Having better guides is exactly what will solve the issue though. Unless you're making some kind of inherent argument, where all meditation is inherently nebulous and impervious to methodological approaches.

The guides may or may not be qualified. So the real problem is the lack systematization of it in meditation, more specifically a more reliable metric to judge "guides". As the extensive literature on meditation quite clearly outlines the limitations and dangers of various practices.

Tantra for example is quite clear about the dangers of practicing it.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#460

Post by cranesnake » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

Vipassana and Marijuana lead me to a full-blown psychosis for 2 weeks in a medical center which unraveled my mind and the perception of my world. But I also feel I have a deeper understanding of myself and how balances in my mind work, having now recovered. I was forced to reconstruct my mind manually. Before this my control over my depression and anxiety was null, but now I may be getting off of medication soon.