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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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221–230 of 961 posts

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#221

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

One thing to consider is perhaps a bias: could there be some phenomenon that makes these "entitlement" events _appear_ to be more common than they previously have been? Or are they actually more common lately?

To that end, I saw an interesting statistic thrown around: "The Federal Aviation Administration said it had fielded 1,300 complaints of unruly passengers since February, the same number of enforcement actions it took against passengers in the past decade." (Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/10/travel/faa-unruly-airline...)

That lends statistical credence to what you're saying: customers/people have gotten more entitled and, I'll interject my own phrasing, crazy. A 10x increase in "unruly passengers" is ... just hard to wrap my head around.

Of course, that 10x spike could be primarily attributed to masks and not necessarily an increase in broader entitlement or "freakouts". That's really what we're concerned with, because the mask rules will go away eventually. So what we're all really worried about is, are people getting "crazier" in general? Or is just the mask rules rubbing a lot of the population the wrong way?

That's harder to say. But I thought it important to at least address the bias question. I know myself I figured things couldn't be getting as bad as the internet makes them seem. I thought it may have been the "video camera in everyone's pocket" bias or something. But the stats point towards this possibly being a real shift.

As for why people might be getting out of hand? Well I don't have specific sources for this, but I've seen a few articles and quotes that suggest that isolation can cause permanent psychological damage. I know many people expected lock downs to have negative effects on our psychologies, but I think few are aware of just how damaging it's been. And it likely had a disproportionate effect on people with existing mental illness or mental "fault lines" as I like to call them. Combined with many society's lack of support structures for mental health and, well, it's perhaps no wonder that we're seeing a lot of public "freakouts". And as you've said, customer service workers bare the brunt of that.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#222
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone who was mad at their partner because their partner was a software engineer and "didn't work as hard as they do" at a lower skill job, and yet made a lot more money. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that hard work is as valuable/more valuable than skilled work. But it seems to be a pervasive idea.

I have spent thousands of hours honing my software craft outside of work/school hours. I guarantee you most folks working those minimum wage jobs are not doing the same in their field. If they were passionate about it (whether front of house or in the kitchen) they would also hone their craft and work their way out of minimum wage. The problem is that the turnover rate in restaurants is ALREADY very high. Most employ…

From the article:

> Low wages are the most common reason people cite for leaving food service work. But in one recent survey, more than half of hospitality workers who've quit said no amount of pay would get them to return.

> That's because for many, leaving food service had a lot to do also with its high-stress culture: exhausting work, unreliable hours, no benefits and so many rude customers.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#223
post #29

Restaurant owners refuse to pay higher wages because that would remove a huge profit source for them - variable pricing. As long as part of the wage is in tips the owner effectively is capable of charging customers different prices. Rich people pay more but poor poeple also visit. If you raise the price to pay a good wage without tips and abolish tipping you lose the poor customers.

This would apply to all industries and yet every one else seems to be able to figure it out. Also I have never been to a Restaurant where I got a different menu based on my W2. Edit: I missed the point, my fault.

>Also I have never been to a Restaurant where I got a different menu based on my W2

That's OPs point? Tipping allows for a degree of price discrimination since people that can't afford the full cost (menu price + tip) are allowed to pay less.

I'd quibble about the degree of that effect, but it makes sense directionally.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#224
post #9

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

Honestly, as necessary as that is, it’s not a magic solution. People are quitting the restaurant industry in France too, despite having none of the tip silliness. It’s just that people are realizing that there are easier minimum wage jobs than working in a kitchen

>> people are realizing that there are easier minimum wage jobs than working in a kitchen

A lot of jurisdictions showed them this when they paid almost the the same as their FT take-home pay during Covid. I don't think they've left for something better; I think they're mostly not doing anything.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#225

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

> Customer entitlement is out of control It's not just customer entitlement. It's been a steadily rising thing throughout society for my whole life. People are less and less willing to accept responsibility for their choices, and more and more it's always someone else's fault. For example, a person who chose to go $300,000 into debt to go to Columbia film school, where the starting salary upon graduating is $30,000,…

But in that example, Columbia made students big promises that it simply couldn’t deliver. It’s more like a deeply dishonest salesman than a hapless waiter who gets your order wrong. From James Stoteraux:

> Many of the students in my class who didn’t turn their degrees into industry success were insanely talented, but Columbia traded on its reputation to sell them big dreams that it could never deliver.

> During my 2nd year I suspected that the school wasn’t providing a launching pad to a career — most of the instructors were struggling to establish a career themselves & many weren’t even much more experienced than their students. A 4th yr student taught our cinematography class.

> The brass ring the program dangled was that your film could be chosen for the annual festival where, in theory, big-time agents would see it and maybe sign you. But it was cutthroat to even be selected for the festival. And tuition didn’t cover the cost to make those films.

> I slowly begin to realize this IS the deal. He made it pretty clear if I wanted my degree, I needed to help him sell his tv pilot. Yep, the Chair of Columbia’s prestigious graduate film program tried to shake me down in order to jump-start his own stalled out career.

The full thread is here: https://twitter.com/jstoteraux/status/1413326562821246978?s=....

Students definitely deserve some blame for signing onto these expensive programs without doing any meaningful research. But university admins can be corrupt, too, and it’s likely that they used their reputation as “Columbia” to sell students something they knew was fake.

Anyway, in response to the original point — I don’t think that’s a good example of entitlement since “scam” is a more appropriate word. I think they had stuff like “people being mean to waiters and flight attendants” in mind, which is a different sort of entitlement.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#226
post #9

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

Honestly, as necessary as that is, it’s not a magic solution. People are quitting the restaurant industry in France too, despite having none of the tip silliness. It’s just that people are realizing that there are easier minimum wage jobs than working in a kitchen

Same in Germany

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#227
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the industry is not sustainable then.

Maybe a cut in VAT would help? Although that probably doesn’t help in the states …

If you're taking about the UK, the obvious starting point would be ending subsidies for buy-to-let.

In a pandemic with vast spending deficits, the government is giving out mortgage holidays, 95% mortgage scheme, stamp duty holiday etc.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The employers aren’t raising their wages either They are. It takes time but they are. I work in a business that is having a hard time hiring entry level healthcare workers because Walmart and Amazon warehoueses is now paying $15-20/hr when it was only $12 pre-covid. Walmart and Amazon would only raise wages if they truly had a labor supply issue, which they do, we all do.

I do see a bit of improvement. CVS starts out at $15/hr. I have a feeling that is only in certain zip codes? Kroger decided to close a store because it didn't want to pay a covid front line temporary increase of $4/hr. I don't see a big increase in wages, and I work a lot of lousy jobs. If job conditions were a bit better, a lot of employees will stay at a low paying job because they actually like their fellow employ…

> Kroger decided to close a store because it didn't want to pay a covid front line temporary increase of $4/hr.

If you're talking about Seattle, Kroger closed that store because it was underperforming for years, not because of a temporary wage increase that affected every grocery store in the city. Weeks later, they started advertising open positions with wage increases for nearby stores they didn't close...

When it comes to political decisions, firms lie all the time about their motivations. I don't understand how anyone can take what they say at face value, without any means to verify their claims.

The reality is that nobody closes their grocery business because labour costs went up for them and their competitors. Customers still need groceries to live, and you and your competitors just pass the costs directly to them, without any change to profit margins or market share. Closing your grocery over this is as nonsensical as closing your grocery because the spot price of milk went up to $15/gallon.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#229
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just remember that _you_, presumably a tech worker making great money, would easily pay $10 instead of $5. Many others are extremely price-elastic and will literally give up years of patronage for Denny's or something with a move like this. One could argue that they could market to a higher-earning clientele, but that might not exist where you are, and they'd still have to pay to (maybe) earn that market. it's a huge…

Those others would be exhibiting price-elastic behavior, not price-inelastic. (A high change in demand for a change in price is elastic.)

Thanks for the correction!

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#230
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you do not get unemployment if you quit your job voluntarily. when managers say employees leave in order to collect unemployment, it's a lie.

The covid rule changes to UI were more flexible. You could leave/not take a new job due to covid concerns: https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/Califo...

but you still can't get unemployment if you voluntarily leave your job
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