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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#341

Post by travisjungroth »

pradn wrote: post #330
nineplay wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

Throughout Buddhist history, the contemplative, meditative, "philosophical" Buddhism has always been practiced by a small minority of monks and nuns. Even at the height of Buddhist fervor in the middle of the first millennium, far under 0.5% of the population of, say, China were monastics. (In fact most of those simply had certificates of monkhood that exempted from corvee labor - taxes in the form of labor, and were…

The source of the conflict is that when most people in the US say “Buddhism”, they mean “Buddhism that was exported to the US in the 60s.” which was an odd combination of monastic and secularized. It’s actually a strange combo when you think about it. Most Buddhists are more like Americans on Easter Sunday.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#342

Post by maxduckworth »

8note wrote: post #291
eurasiantiger wrote: post #46

> And I didn’t have a history of any major trauma prior to the retreat Yeah, right. > in 2009 I started a fist fight in a French Quarter bar … I broke a window with my fist, misplaced my shirt, and guzzled about 16 bottles of Miller High Life … > That … represented a constant battle I had waged over the prior decade with anger and other negative emotions. I drank too much. I occasionally smashed printers that jammed.…

Why childhood, vs unacknowledged trauma as an adult?

I think it's just more likely that unacknowledged trauma originated in childhood. It's certainly possible to have unacknowledged trauma as adults, but it's less common because 1) it's closer in calendar time and therefore easier to remember and 2) you are more developed and able to actually identify what is traumatic.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#343

Post by e9 »

shannifin wrote: post #73

I've had some very negative anxiety-driven experiences with dissociation (depersonalization / derealization / de-something-zation), usually when traveling to somewhere I'm unfamiliar with. It usually only lasts for 5 to 15 minutes rather than hours, but it does sound a lot like what he describes. Relating this to meditation: On the rare occasion that I try meditating, it doesn't trigger anything negative, but I have…

What you describe in your example about mind stop being focused on the future sounds like when sound and video on TV is not synchronized and you become aware that you are watching the TV

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#344

Post by lhorie »

nineplay wrote: post #313
lhorie wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by this comment. Do you mean to say that Buddhists ought to engage in religious flame wars? FWIW, Buddhism is fairly centered on self-improvement, with idolatry being generally seen as respectful reverence, or at worst as lucky charms. I don't see the problem in taking just the teachings of a belief system while ignoring the idolatry aspect. In fact, some western takes on religion could use less idolatry…

I think it is pure ignorance to call Buddhism a "philosophy rather than a religion" and sneer at idols. You might as well sneer at a display where a round, black-and-white ball is called a 'football'. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about any form of Buddhism practiced anywhere outside of your little world view

So, for a bit of perspective, as a child, I was mostly exposed to the ritualistic aspects of buddhism, which is probably the closest experience to what a westerner thinks of when thinking of "religion". Do I think that people prioritizing mindfulness to de-stress and calling it Buddhism are kinda missing the point, sure. Do I get offended that they aren't aware of the existence of things like buddhist prayers, for example? No, not really. Honestly, assuming that "bastardizing" buddhism would offend people like me seems like needless SJW-ness for its own sake, especially considering Buddhism has already been bastardized to the wazoo throughout history.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#345

Post by badkitty99 »

andrewzah wrote: post #222
Nursie wrote: post #79

Wow, there are a lot of judgemental and defensive responses here, from people who are allegedly working towards greater self knowledge and detachment... So many saying some variation of "he's not doing it right". Yet with ten years of practice, it doesn't seem like this person was just dabbling or dipping their toe in the water. Surely, even if they are "doing it wrong" that just goes to prove the point, that what's…

10 years doesn't really mean much by itself. If I incorrectly practice guitar for 10 years, I'll have experience of practicing the guitar incorrectly, and maybe RSI/health issues from not learning correct posture, etc. There is no rule that I'll actually get "good" at guitar by practicing that way. "that 's being taught and lauded so much as a panacea" Lauded by whom? And exactly? Buddhism? Meditation? Those are very…

Well said!

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#346

Post by kjaftaedi »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #327
arbitrage wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author obviously isn't ignorant. The comment you failed to respond to directly is talking about "a particular misapprehension of Buddhist teachings in modern society." This is not about ignorance, and framing it as such is directly supporting the thesis of the original article.

Misapprehension is a function of ignorance. If you're free of trapped priors, you'll eventually sort out your misconceptions, as you learn more. Regarding this particular slice of turkey on the table, since you insist: "[T]his is a misunderstanding that the Buddha himself addressed in the teachings." The teachings? The teachings a person would likely be exposed to and eventually come up understand, if they've read co…

Regardless of whether the author understood the teachings, he clearly ignored them with the drinking, drugs, and coffee.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#347

Post by medstrom »

nineplay wrote: post #318
potatoman22 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why villainize the "white American", portraying them as "knowing better"? Yes, the mischaracterization of Buddhism is disrespectful, but it comes from ignorance, not malice.

It is ignorance that borders on arrogance. They must know that Buddhism is over two thousand years old. They must know that it is central to many cultures all over the world. Yet they somehow are confident that their way is the 'right' way.

Ah, the amorphous "they". Like the amorphous "many". I'm not sure there's all that many that do this.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#348

Post by pier25 »

javajosh wrote: post #233
mandmandam wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bi-polar is specifically screened for as a contra-indication for retreats, at least Goenka ones (along with Reiki practice, interestingly). They may still allow a diagnosed individual on, but are supposed to give extra attention. What retreat did you go on, and did they ask about bi-polar experience pre-retreat?

They screen for a variety of things, but people aren't always honest. Psychosis and bipolar are two criteria. There may be more. They will also reject people if they are just clearly off their rocker -- Vipassana at these centers is specifically NOT for people with serious mental illness. Reiki is a problem, I speculate, because it puts you in the habit of imagining sensation beyond your body, and this may lead to so…

> They screen for a variety of things, but people aren't always honest.

And there is a form of milder bipolar disorder called cyclothymia that is rarely diagnosed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclothymia

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#349

Post by stevebmark »

The end goal of mindfulness is to make you realize that you don't exist, and to make you realize you don't have free will, and there is no you. While it's all true, it's not a good place to leave someone without a next step. It can be useful to make people realize that their thoughts aren't their own, which can help with anxiety. Maybe it can also lead to meltdowns like the one in this article if you continue the practice long past "I don't exist and I have no free will."

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#350

Post by cyberpunk »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #337
lhorie wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One take I heard about yoga that kinda applies here is "if yoga is injuring you, your understanding of it is wrong" I think the underlying issue with all these asian-spiritualism-turned-western-nouveau-health is that western people sometimes come in wanting things to be intense, clinical and goal-oriented. But that's literally the opposite of what most of what these disciplines are all about. Asian health upkeep prac…

"western people sometimes come in wanting things to be intense, clinical and goal-oriented." That describes me exactly. I spent forever look for a "quantified meditation" course. I even kept a mediation journal where I could track how many times I lost track of my breath in a 5 minute session. I started out around 50 and was desperately trying to get to 0. I even used an app that counts taps, that I would rest under…

Woah that seems really the polar opposite of what I practice..

I think you’re doing yourself a bit wrong with this approach.

Can I suggest a book to you? It’s “Sit down and shut up” by Brad Warner, it may help.

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