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Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

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Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#311

Post by jameshush »

nwatson wrote: post #281
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had a significant other with a similar upper middle class wage, e.g., $220k * 2 = $440k you could probably swing it with more breathing room. You are wise to avoid the burden, in the chance you technically qualify for the mortgage but barely so in the Bay Area (e.g., leaving you house poor). The fact that home affordability requires a HH income in the top 2-3% is, to put it mildly, highly concerning. It makes…

Or work remotely. One can make way above prevailing local salaries working remotely for SF Bay Area companies.

I'll echo this. The 6-7 years of "California" tech experience pays dividends in other countries. Ended up moving to Taipei so my example is a bit extreme, but I have quite a few friends making "low end" California $100k-120k USD/year wages while living in the middle of nowhere Canada.

I still wanted to live in a city, and Taipei has all the amenities Los Angeles or San Francisco had (nice bars, hipster coffee shops, great out doors areas). My friends wanted big wide open space and being close to family in Canada.

I was being paid on the "low end" for an engineering manager in California but in the top 1% in Taiwan.

For anyone considering trying "location arbitrage", whether that be in a "normal" city in a middle state of the USA, or a more extreme example like myself, I high recommend giving it a shot. You can _always_ move back to SF, LA, NYC, London, Hong Kong etc. The only risk you're making is the slope of your savings account decreasing slightly.

Remember, you'll never have _more_ time and _less_ responsibility then right at this moment. You'll only get less time and more responsibility as time passes on.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#312

Post by autarch »

SilverRed wrote: post #309
autarch wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty convinced most people buy because they're either tired of the bullshit that comes with renting or want to buy into a specific school district, not because they're worried about making a return on their investment. Another big factor is noise. A detached house is going to be quieter than most apartments in a shared building. That was the big reason we moved to a house. I'm a light sleeper and noise from p…

This is highly dependent on the building. I have been in houses where all night you hear loud motorbikes and bogans doing burnouts while my current apartment has incredible sound insulation and double glazed windows to the point I wouldn't know other people live here if I didn't see them in the hallway.

I've lived in a number of apartments and none were like this. Sounds amazing! But does it also have good sound insulation between apartments?

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#313

Post by lumost »

hnhousingthrow wrote: post #188

These calculators don't reflect the reality/absurdity of the current economy. Anecdotal, but I bought a house in eastern California last year for $600k, now Zillow says it's worth $835k. Also, I'll unlikely ever be able to afford a house in the Bay Area, even though I make $220k/year at a company there. Still don't know what I'll do if my employer makes us return to the SF office in a few months. Relatedly, a ~70 yea…

At the current rate of price increases it pays more to be a property owner than a top 3% income. There will clearly be no future implications to this /s

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#314

Post by hansvm »

duped wrote: post #90
waylandsmithers wrote: post #43

One piece of millenial defeatism I hear a lot is "Ugh, I'll never be able to afford a 20% down payment, home ownership is impossible" I'm not sure where this myth came from, but as a millenial who went through the buying process in 2012 and again in 2016, I remember both times the lender just asked how much we wanted to put down. We could have gone as low as 3%, or maybe even lower. Yes, you have to pay PMI (private…

I mean this is the definition of a strawman argument. Whether it's 10 or 20% down payment is not that significant. Even 5% is un-affordable. The median sale price of a home was $347,000 last month (0). 5% down on that is $17,350, accounting for closing costs you're going to need around $24,000 in cash to purchase a home. Which isn't all that much money, except if you consider that it's more than 1/3rd of the median f…

It looks like the flow of your idea is to examine a "typical" family, demonstrate that they can't easily afford a home, and rely on most real-world distributions being nice to conclude that many people can't easily afford homes.

Ignoring the conclusion for the moment, that kind of an argument shouldn't just take into account the median savings balance; the median family has one or more individuals age 35+ and $40k+ in home equity -- they can afford a home as evidenced by the fact that they already bought one, and that additional factor to net worth is sufficient to allow them to easily switch homes if desired.

The conclusion itself definitely seems true in many cases, but if families are willing to move and switch careers I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. In every city over 30k people I've visited I've been able to clear $25+/hr just delivering doordash, and many of those have nice 2-3 bedroom homes under $150k. I nearly bought a $180k triplex after a couple years as a lowly pizza driver, and the only reason I didn't become a landlord then and there is because my girlfriend at the time convinced me college would be a better investment (I don't know that it necessarily was, but looking at my current career trajectory I don't have any evidence to the contrary).

Home ownership still wouldn't be totally trivial per se (maybe taking up to 3-5yrs), but in the vast majority of circumstances I'd wager without further proof that the things holding people back from home ownership are stronger alternative preferences (particular careers, cities, ...), and a lack of knowledge about what opportunities are available.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#315

Post by SilverRed »

autarch wrote: post #312
SilverRed wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is highly dependent on the building. I have been in houses where all night you hear loud motorbikes and bogans doing burnouts while my current apartment has incredible sound insulation and double glazed windows to the point I wouldn't know other people live here if I didn't see them in the hallway.

I've lived in a number of apartments and none were like this. Sounds amazing! But does it also have good sound insulation between apartments?

This is a 2019 30 level apt building. In the hallways I sometimes hear people talking but its very quiet. Inside my apt I can only hear the door directly opposite mine closing and it's also not very loud.

I'm guessing its all dependent on how much money was spent on noise insulation. Between rooms inside my apt there is very little sound insulation which is not a big deal for me but maybe for others.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#316

Post by tuananh »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #183
crazygringo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I'm the opposite. The more I get older the less I want to deal with bullshit home maintenance, and the infinite time suck that is customization and endless improvements. Really part of a general life shift from "if you want it done right, do it yourself" and "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right" -- to "outsourcing is a valuable tool" and "perfection is the enemy of the good". I realize my time is valua…

Regardless of age, needs and priorities change. There's no joy in moving, but it's still better than the time suck of hiring a contractor, electrician, and/or plumber. AND having to pay them. Owning is nice. But it's more limited and more time consuming. There's a cost associated with that.

> Owning is nice. But it's more limited and more time consuming. There's a cost associated with that.

I'm living in SEA.the cost of owning a house isn't a lot where i live. so I'm surprised to keep hearing this from those living in US.

can you elaborate a bit more what kind of cost do have when owning a house?

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#317

Post by atatatat »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #254
hnhousingthrow wrote: post #188

These calculators don't reflect the reality/absurdity of the current economy. Anecdotal, but I bought a house in eastern California last year for $600k, now Zillow says it's worth $835k. Also, I'll unlikely ever be able to afford a house in the Bay Area, even though I make $220k/year at a company there. Still don't know what I'll do if my employer makes us return to the SF office in a few months. Relatedly, a ~70 yea…

If you had a significant other with a similar upper middle class wage, e.g., $220k * 2 = $440k you could probably swing it with more breathing room. You are wise to avoid the burden, in the chance you technically qualify for the mortgage but barely so in the Bay Area (e.g., leaving you house poor). The fact that home affordability requires a HH income in the top 2-3% is, to put it mildly, highly concerning. It makes…

> upper middle class wage, e.g., $220k

Oh, so you live on one of the coasts, then.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#318

Post by snypher »

atatatat wrote: post #317
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had a significant other with a similar upper middle class wage, e.g., $220k * 2 = $440k you could probably swing it with more breathing room. You are wise to avoid the burden, in the chance you technically qualify for the mortgage but barely so in the Bay Area (e.g., leaving you house poor). The fact that home affordability requires a HH income in the top 2-3% is, to put it mildly, highly concerning. It makes…

> upper middle class wage, e.g., $220k Oh, so you live on one of the coasts, then.

It would be helpful if you would post a comparison of income vs housing cost in your area. They're replying to someone posting about San Francisco.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#319

Post by jkestner »

anonAndOn wrote: post #196
hnhousingthrow wrote: post #188

These calculators don't reflect the reality/absurdity of the current economy. Anecdotal, but I bought a house in eastern California last year for $600k, now Zillow says it's worth $835k. Also, I'll unlikely ever be able to afford a house in the Bay Area, even though I make $220k/year at a company there. Still don't know what I'll do if my employer makes us return to the SF office in a few months. Relatedly, a ~70 yea…

I submit the housing market of Phoenix, Arizona as an example of peak bubble. There are numerous houses on the market today that were previously sold... ~30 days ago. This feels more ludicrous than the speculative housing bubble of '07.

One was even sold twice in one day: https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/real-estate/done-deals...

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#320

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

Johnny555 wrote: post #297
Spooky23 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landlord insurance goes up but only covers the structure and costs less, while homeowners covers more perils and contents.

Yes, but in an area with such a hurricane risk that it led to an increase so great that it more than doubled someone's home mortgage, it would have had to have had a large impact on landlord's structure insurance, raising rents. For someone with a $1000/month house payment, that's $24,000/year in extra premiums. If that's a $200,000 house, in 10 years the extra premium would cover the house... I don't see how landlor…

> Yes, but in an area with such a hurricane risk that it led to an increase so great that it more than doubled someone's home mortgage,

I believe you assume that the increase was tied to our increased risk. It would be more accurate to say that it was tied to risk of other places, hundreds of miles away. In my post, I had stated that we were at less risk than major mid-Atlantic cities.

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