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Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

shouldigetahouse.com

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Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#161

Post by hardtke »

gedy wrote: post #135
mauvehaus wrote: post #119

You get old enough, and you get tired of somebody else making decisions from afar that affect your day to day life with no real consequences to them. Little things like the kitchen layout being moronic and having zero drawers get old when it isn't your choice to remodel or live with it. And while it's nice to say "just move", let's not forget that moving costs a couple months rent and a massive time investment to fin…

Similarly I've hated renting from owners doing it for the "investment", where the going rent is typically much cheaper than the mortgage for the property (California). Many landlords think they are giving you some great deal when they are the ones who bought beyond their means..

For multifamily housing the price of a building is usually such that if you put around 40% of the purchase price down the building is cash flow break even after mortgage, taxes, expenses. The same is basically true if you buy a house to rent out. This is the case because over long periods of time real estate has appreciated by 8% per year with much less volatility compared to the stock market, and favorable tax rules (particularly depreciation) mean you can "lose" a lot of money on paper and claim those losses to offset other income. Your landlord is not giving you a great deal.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#163

Post by hatchnyc »

mauvehaus wrote: post #119

You get old enough, and you get tired of somebody else making decisions from afar that affect your day to day life with no real consequences to them. Little things like the kitchen layout being moronic and having zero drawers get old when it isn't your choice to remodel or live with it. And while it's nice to say "just move", let's not forget that moving costs a couple months rent and a massive time investment to fin…

Yeah, I wish we had German-style "unfurnished" apartments available in the US where you can rent an apartment that's literally concrete subfloor and unpainted walls, no kitchen appliances or cabinets, etc. I guess Americans move too frequently to make this viable.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#164

Post by ghaff »

codegeek wrote: post #133
mauvehaus wrote: post #119

You get old enough, and you get tired of somebody else making decisions from afar that affect your day to day life with no real consequences to them. Little things like the kitchen layout being moronic and having zero drawers get old when it isn't your choice to remodel or live with it. And while it's nice to say "just move", let's not forget that moving costs a couple months rent and a massive time investment to fin…

In other words, buying vs renting shouldn't only be based on numbers/math. I own a home for 8+ years and I have probably spent shit load of money in maintenance/prop.taxes/repairs that I probably wouldn't if I was just renting but there is no way in hell I am giving up my freedom of doing whatever I want to my home (yes yes there are limits with township/HOA etc). I don't need no landlord to tell me what I can and ca…

Yeah. By all means run the numbers. But at the end of the day most people probably shouldn't make a decision based on the numbers except maybe in some specific apartment vs. condo scenarios where they plan to stay in the area for a while.

Otherwise, the type of place you want, how important mobility is to you, your freedom to make changes (and conversely your interest and willingness to do maintenance/repairs/manage projects), etc. should probably mostly be the deciding factors.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#165

Post by barrkel »

alach11 wrote: post #125
anotherman554 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best/ most powerful rent vs buy calculator I am aware of is the one offered here: https://michaelbluejay.com/house/rentvsbuy.html browsing it might give you some ideas of features you can add to your calculator. It's also a small thing but having the choice to select the downpayment based on percentage down might be nice. I don't know why your calculator tells me getting a house is not worth even if it thinks the…

The determination of whether to buy the house is based on the calculated rate of return. So even if you make a profit, if the time horizon is large you’d be better off investing that money in stocks. The UI doesn’t make that clear enough.

Houses are both leveraged investments (in a non-productive depreciating asset, I know, I know) and a forced savings mechanism. Investment in stocks by average people is not leveraged, and nor is there a forcing function that makes you put money into the stocks every month or you end up homeless.

These two functions have some value - especially the latter.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#167

Post by andrewmcwatters »

cperciva wrote: post #124
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #98

In 2021, the buy vs rent decision is a little like Should I buy a whale ranch on Mars or Venus? I suggest that the decision whether to rent a house might want to take into account that each rental ad is getting hundreds of applicants, each day - with few new ads showing up. ref: https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/mil-money/2021/07... ref: https://www.amisun.com/2021/06/27/once-in-a-generation-housi... ref: ht…

Buying isn't any better with sales going to all-cash buyers who are paying way above and beyond market. If that's the price houses are selling for, that is the market price.

Guess you’re not familiar with the concept of scarcity and outlier buyers.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#168

Post by sokoloff »

carabiner wrote: post #99
drfuchs wrote: post #47

Where do I enter the intangible value of owning: "Don't have to worry about getting priced out if the neighborhood becomes popular; can do any improvements I want, when I want, how I want, and they become an asset; don't have to worry about not getting lease renewed at an inconvenient time (perhaps in the middle of a school year) when the owner's nephew gets divorced and needs a place; on the other hand, don't have t…

> can do any improvements I want, when I want This is the main thing I'm wondering about. Most people I know who own homes enjoy working on them. Home improvement becomes a hobby that they like, whether it's basic plumbing or painting the walls or building a deck. I despise this work (even though I do basic carpentry), and I fully consider it work that detracts from my life. It's like doing the dishes, it's a chore,…

I do a substantial majority of the repairs and maintenance on our cars and our house. It's a hobby of sorts, but it's also a real stretch to say that I enjoy it.

I do it because it's a phenomenal way to save money (and that savings is not taxed, meaning that if I avoid paying a contractor $5000, it's about the same financially as earning an extra $8500) and many of the jobs don't take an extraordinary amount of time or skill once I factor in the time required to get three contractors to actually show up and submit bids, choose the one I want to use, and do what project management is required to hold them to the standards we agreed to in the contract.

I don't know if you need to have interest in doing home repairs, but you need to have a willingness to do or to manage them.

Homeowners are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to contractors’ priorities. Property managers, landlords, and general contractors/builders can all give them more repeat business than homeowners can, so we get put at the bottom of the stack.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#169

Post by cheese_van »

How you weight the various factors involved with choosing a location varies by your stage in life. But a key consideration should be, "Do I want to live here? Does it accommodate my interests? Will living here bore me?" If you don't ask these questions the ROI will be less meaningful.

And to an extreme, as I purchased after retirement, "Is this the house and community I'm won't terribly mind dying in?" It's a damned odd thing to ask yourself, if like me, it's your final house, but you'd better do it, the devil with ROI.

Re: Show HN: Should I Get a House? a better rent vs. buy calculator

#170

Post by HWR_14 »

TomVDB wrote: post #109
anotherman554 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more sophisticated calculators allow you to compare buying and spending more on housing per month vs renting at a cheaper price and investing the extra money you have in the stock market. (Although many people may not have such discipline, and renting costs verse purchase costs are going to vary from market to market.) There's no advantage to passing on a house to kids verse passing on stocks. Also, similarly, th…

> There's no advantage to passing on a house to kids passing on stocks. Except for Proposition 13 in California, which allows you to pass on your real estate tax to your inheritors once. In the case of my neighbors, that means their son will pay ~$1200 in taxes per year vs ~$30k for us who own an identical house.

Repealing Prop 13 seems like the most important single change that can be made to the California real estate market.
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