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Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

thehill.com

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Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#31

Post by svrourke »

president wrote: post #8

It's not so much as punishing people for weed but punishing them for knowingly breaking the law right? Maybe locking people up is a bit harsh but people know the consequences no? Maybe we should recognize that there is value in having people in a society follow the rule of law.

This seems like a bit of the appeal to authority logical fallacy. Law does not make something valid good or proper and to follow laws for the sake of them being laws is missing the point of laws no? Do you actually value the purpose of the law or is it just a boolean true or false if something is illegal its bad and wrong because it's illegal?

How valuable to society are people who pretend not to be gay when it's illegal?

How much value was there in keeping black people out of the same restaurants as white people?

What value do you perceive society gains by locking people up for smoking a plant that makes you laugh?

On the contrary does it not remove value from society to stringently pursue punitive measures against something like being in possession of a gram of cannabis while higher crimes often face far less significant (relatively) consequences?

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#32

Post by etaioinshrdlu »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #4

The value was explained back in the Nixon era, and it was a BAD value: " “You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up…

Doesn’t explain why most of Asia is even harsher and more restrictive than the USA.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#33

Post by version_five »

klyrs wrote: post #15
president wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing drugs and other vices for the sake of economic prosperity is sad and goes against progress for humanity. I live next door to someone that smokes non-stop everyday and the second-hand smoke pisses me off to no end.

Different folks have different motivations. Capitalists want to legalize for profit. SJWs want to legalize to reduce the prison population. Libertarians want to legalize because one should be free to choose what they do with their bodies. Users want to legalize because they don't want to deal with the risk, and prefer above-board retail. Your characterization of smoking as a "vice" is your personal belief, and person…

You're missing that legalization breaks criminal monopolies, let's people get help more easily if they need it, and removed a mechanism where law enforcement can basically make someone or some group they don't like a criminal, by making illegal something that most people do.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#34

Post by pstuart »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #32
throwaway81523 wrote: post #4

The value was explained back in the Nixon era, and it was a BAD value: " “You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up…

Doesn’t explain why most of Asia is even harsher and more restrictive than the USA.

The USA does export its drug policy stance, and per the Nixon policies, it's a win for any government to have those tools of oppression on tap for when needed.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#35

Post by pstuart »

tilolebo wrote: post #5

Curious what's the opinion of the HN community on decriminalization and legalization of marijuana. It seems accepted as an inevitable progress. But seeing the damage alcohol and tobacco does to society, I wonder what good it will bring, except from an economic PoV.

Whatever damage drugs do is insignificant compared to the damage that the prohibition laws do -- from punishing individuals to subsidizing organized crime (by artificially raising prices on drugs by making them illegal).

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#36

Post by etaioinshrdlu »

pstuart wrote: post #34
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t explain why most of Asia is even harsher and more restrictive than the USA.

The USA does export its drug policy stance, and per the Nixon policies, it's a win for any government to have those tools of oppression on tap for when needed.

I think a simpler explanation is that the general public in a country such as Japan deeply hates drug use.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#37

Post by edmundsauto »

Auracle wrote: post #27
tilolebo wrote: post #5

Curious what's the opinion of the HN community on decriminalization and legalization of marijuana. It seems accepted as an inevitable progress. But seeing the damage alcohol and tobacco does to society, I wonder what good it will bring, except from an economic PoV.

The idealist in me thinks it should be legal, as what people should put into their bodies should be there choice. The pragmatist thinks it should stay illegal. We know it’s bad for people’s brains, especially developing minds. That’s compounded by the fact that many people think the primary danger from drugs is death, and since it won’t kill you it must be basically harmless. I’m sure a good portion of us also know p…

> We know it’s bad for people’s brains, especially developing minds

To clarify, we know its bad for developing brains, but I don't think we know the effect on people who start smoking > age 25. There have been studies that show different things, but I don't think we have any consensus about the impact of cannabis usage on brains > 25 y.o.

Also, if we're going to base it as individual vs. society, its important to include the cost of enforcement as a negative on the societal part. For me, that makes the decision pretty easy - in both cases, we have harm caused either by the drug or by the drug + enforcement.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#38

Post by edmundsauto »

echlebek wrote: post #30
edmundsauto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the same, they should not be subjected to the smell of smoke from their neighbors house.

Would you stop BBQing if your neighbour complained about it?

That's an interesting question. If someone had a smoker running all day, everyday, and it was an annoyance to neighbors - yes, I think there should be recourse.

One person shouldn't be allowed to harm other people's enjoyment of their property.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#39

Post by Auracle »

rpmisms wrote: post #14
tilolebo wrote: post #5

Curious what's the opinion of the HN community on decriminalization and legalization of marijuana. It seems accepted as an inevitable progress. But seeing the damage alcohol and tobacco does to society, I wonder what good it will bring, except from an economic PoV.

It's healthier than most alcohol or tobacco use. I don't see why it should be controlled.

That depends on what you mean. Tobacco - bad for lungs, throat, mouth. Alcohol - bad for pretty much all of you. Pot - bad for your brain, and other areas depending on how you take it. Can also trigger psychological disorders like schizophrenia.

I fear that legalization won’t come with the education that’s necessary to counteract the “marijuana is healthy” crowd that make that leap because you can’t die from it. It’s pretty clear it’s terrible for developing brains.

Re: Surgeon general: No 'value' to locking people up over marijuana use

#40

Post by k12sosse »

LatteLazy wrote: post #29

I'm just old enough to remember when the surgeon general said masterbation was OK and drug policy should be changed and got sacked under Clinton. Let's hope it works better this time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joycelyn_Elders

The idea of pro-masturbation comment to cause her to "lose the support of the (Clinton) Whitehouse" is pretty damn hilarious.

As a non-American, she was news to me. Thanks for sharing.

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