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Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

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Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#51

Post by glogla »

jMyles wrote: post #40
hermannj314 wrote: post #33

I am not sure I agree with the EFF on this one. If the future of cars is autonomous to save lives, then the future of police could be the same for the same reasons. The 1951 version of the The Day the Earth Stood Still, with an all-powerful robot GORT that neutralized human aggression left an imprint on me. I honestly think a legion of GORTs will be better than a legion of humans - if only because I believe the end o…

> If the future of cars is autonomous to save lives, then the future of police could be the same for the same reasons. The presumption that there is such a thing as "the future of police" is worrisome. The now nearly 200-year experiment of designating a tiny subset of the population as exclusively responsible for public safety and law enforcement goes very poorly. The abolitionist movement is as strong today as any t…

The police abolitionism is much stronger in the US, where you can trace lineage of police to slavers and union-busting hit squads, than in the rest of the civilized world.

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#52

Post by GartzenDeHaes »

frickinLasers wrote: post #36
millzlane wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy in Texas was the first IIRC killed with an explosive. https://www.cnet.com/news/dallas-shooter-killed-by-bomb-equi...

And that appears to be the first case on US soil where a robot was actually used to kill.

It's not. Police agencies have taken care to avoid headlines that might raise unpleasant questions about killing suspects with military robots, so it's not something that's easily googleable.

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#53

Post by heavyset_go »

SMAAART wrote: post #46

Here's the "problem": on a worldwide level there are bad actors who will for sure deploy armed robots. Period. So, do we (we = any country in the world) want to be ahead of this technology or behind? Leading or lagging? Because the leaders will have the power to overthrow the laggards, and if history has served us as a teacher, if it MIGH happen (capability) it WILL happen. Add to the mix overpopulation and the relat…

The police don't respond to foreign threats, they enforce laws domestically and locally. Armed police drones aren't going to be used against foreign threats, they'll be used against everyday US residents while enforcing domestic and local laws.

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#54

Post by anigbrowl »

chrisseaton wrote: post #34
plank_time wrote: post #30

The militarization of the police in the US is a huge problem that is out of control. I was extremely disappointed that Obama didn’t not only rein in this militarization but effectively made it worse. We are now having to deal with a generation of cops who think they are GI Joe but don’t have the training. This is why so many unarmed people are getting shot by the cops, because they start their day thinking they are i…

I don’t understand why normal community police are armed at all. There’s absolutely no need for it.

It's a sad fact in the USA that you might encounter an armed criminal almost anywhere. I have personally seen a bunch of crimes involving gunfire, rather than mere brandishing of weapons.

On the other hand, police carry a lot of weapons, typically a handgun, pepper spray, a taser, a baton, and a heavy switchblade knife, plus a shotgun or rifle in the car. But they're relatively poorly trained and (even taking police claims at face value) deaths of civilians have resulted from confusion involving use of the wrong weapon.

Another factor is that urban areas are often policed by people who live in surrounding suburban towns, and end up feeling like they're going to work in a war zone every day because they are not embedded in the communities they ostensibly serve.

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#55

Post by MattGaiser »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #37
frickinLasers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary purpose of that shotgun is IED/UXO disruption, ostensibly. It's unfortunate that the robots have been used as weapons, and that people aren't in prison for it. But I think arming AI-equipped drones specifically to kill is a much more worrisome threat.

I mean, I get that some jargon is clear to those who have an interest in the topic. But how the hell is it acceptable to use sth like "IED/UXO" on an article about ethics? This is so obviously not a well known term (and not searchable). My mind boggles.

I assume you aren't American, Canadian, or Western European. The news constantly discussed IEDs in the context of the Iraq and Afghan wars and UXO is used whenever a bomb is discovered leftover from one of the World Wars.

It is also very searchable, at least to me. The results returned are very relevant.

https://www.google.com/search?q=IED%2FUXO&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA85...

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#56

Post by heavyset_go »

plank_time wrote: post #30

The militarization of the police in the US is a huge problem that is out of control. I was extremely disappointed that Obama didn’t not only rein in this militarization but effectively made it worse. We are now having to deal with a generation of cops who think they are GI Joe but don’t have the training. This is why so many unarmed people are getting shot by the cops, because they start their day thinking they are i…

Training isn't the issue, it's the lack of accountability. Military members are under the threat of being court martialed and spending time in military prison. They know they have less rights in military court than they would as civilians, and that punishment can be harsh.

Cops, on the other hand, know that the system will bend over backwards to accommodate whatever transgression or crime they commit. They can and do act with impunity, because they're actively aware of that impunity. They know that if they get caught, in the worst case scenario, they'll get a paid vacation, their boss will allow them to resign, and they'll have to work one town over.

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#57

Post by chrisseaton »

anigbrowl wrote: post #54
chrisseaton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why normal community police are armed at all. There’s absolutely no need for it.

It's a sad fact in the USA that you might encounter an armed criminal almost anywhere. I have personally seen a bunch of crimes involving gunfire, rather than mere brandishing of weapons. On the other hand, police carry a lot of weapons, typically a handgun, pepper spray, a taser, a baton, and a heavy switchblade knife, plus a shotgun or rifle in the car. But they're relatively poorly trained and (even taking police…

The vast majority of police never actually need their weapons. So why are they routinely carrying them?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-lo...

There's tons of dangerous things we could carry around just in case, but we don't because they'd be seen as aggressive.

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#58

Post by MattGaiser »

jMyles wrote: post #40
hermannj314 wrote: post #33

I am not sure I agree with the EFF on this one. If the future of cars is autonomous to save lives, then the future of police could be the same for the same reasons. The 1951 version of the The Day the Earth Stood Still, with an all-powerful robot GORT that neutralized human aggression left an imprint on me. I honestly think a legion of GORTs will be better than a legion of humans - if only because I believe the end o…

> If the future of cars is autonomous to save lives, then the future of police could be the same for the same reasons. The presumption that there is such a thing as "the future of police" is worrisome. The now nearly 200-year experiment of designating a tiny subset of the population as exclusively responsible for public safety and law enforcement goes very poorly. The abolitionist movement is as strong today as any t…

Policing is far superior to what it replaced.

Previously it was the army, mob rule, or mafia rule (sometimes legally sanctioned like a Lord of an area).

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#59

Post by jMyles »

MattGaiser wrote: post #58
jMyles wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the future of cars is autonomous to save lives, then the future of police could be the same for the same reasons. The presumption that there is such a thing as "the future of police" is worrisome. The now nearly 200-year experiment of designating a tiny subset of the population as exclusively responsible for public safety and law enforcement goes very poorly. The abolitionist movement is as strong today as any t…

Policing is far superior to what it replaced. Previously it was the army, mob rule, or mafia rule (sometimes legally sanctioned like a Lord of an area).

It's 2021 - well into the age of the internet.

What relevance has the practices which police ostensibly supplanted to the matter of how we handle public safety post-abolition?

Re: Don’t Let Police Arm Autonomous or Remote-Controlled Robots and Drones

#60

Post by anigbrowl »

SMAAART wrote: post #46

Here's the "problem": on a worldwide level there are bad actors who will for sure deploy armed robots. Period. So, do we (we = any country in the world) want to be ahead of this technology or behind? Leading or lagging? Because the leaders will have the power to overthrow the laggards, and if history has served us as a teacher, if it MIGH happen (capability) it WILL happen. Add to the mix overpopulation and the relat…

That's a legitimate debate, but you're exploring a military problem in a criminal context. True, gangs and drug cartels could and perhaps will use robots to gather intelligence or kill enemies, including police. But let's be realistic here, they could attack each other with faked up tanks or from stolen helicopters...but that almost never happens.
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