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Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#71

Post by Krasnol »

halotrope wrote: post #54
colordrops wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://grapheneos.org/

Yes but no. Quite frankly I love iOS and my apps and the camera etc. The big disappointment is really that there is no power user mode for the rest of us. The computer/phone is really an extension of the mind at this point and we gave up control so easily. It is as if we let corporations lock down our pleasure center.

You're a good example though for why it works so well. You're not even ready to sacrifice a bit (that bit being still disputable) to gain more control over your phone by switching the vendor. Meanwhile most people wouldn't even get your first desire. We're and have lost already.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#72

Post by briefcomment »

bambax wrote: post #33

> The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO’s hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only intended for use against criminals and terrorists. (from the Guardian inquiry about the same topic). Every time we allow special laws or special tools to fight "terrorism" or "child abuse" or other evils that get people worked up, they end u…

It might hard to accept this, but "public health" is now a part of the surveillance justification tool kit too. When it's impossible to argue against measures taken in defense of public health without seeming selfish, why wouldn't it be?

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#73

Post by bjourne »

antonzabirko wrote: post #44
bjourne wrote: post #40

I know it's not a foolproof solution but perhaps there should be a greater focus on ethics in Computer Science curricula? The Israeli developers who wrote this software may not even have been exposed to the moral and ethical questions writing such software ought to raise. Perhaps there should be trade associations for developers that calls out software companies that writes immoral software? With great power comes gr…

Lol. Sure dude, it's the programmers who are the bad guys, not the people funding the israel/palestine war or in this case the owners of the company who decide to make software that helps assasinate people.

The whole Israeli state is morally bankrupt, but that doesn't mean that Israeli software developers doesn't have any responsibility themselves. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and should at least try to act ethically.

I can't say I know where the line is. For example, would it be unethical to work for Facebook? I don't know and I don't think so. Working for an online casino? In my opinion yes, but others would disagree. Writing software that is used by authorities to hack activists cell phones? Absolutely! It's so far beyond the pale that I can't fathom how anyone could defend it.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#74

Post by MajorBee »

Talanes wrote: post #68
zatertip wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that obvious? An exploit is to encryption as a sword is to a shield. We don't regulate shields.

We do regulate body armor though.

I looked into this because I was intrigued, turns out convicted felons in the good ol' United States are not allowed to purchase/wear/own body armor [1] (barring explicit exceptions).

I wonder what the rationale behind this federal law is. Does wearing/purchasing armor indicate that you, convicted felon, are simply up to no good once again? Is it one of those "you don't need ~~privacy~~ armor if you don't have anything to hide" things?

[1] https://www.shotstop.net/resources-1/2020/9/8/is-it-legal-to...

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#75

Post by playguardin »

josephcsible wrote: post #66
krisoft wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I allow laws? Or rather what does it mean to not “allow” a law? You are right. Terrorism and cp are commonly used excuses to enable even more surveillance. When you talk about “allowing laws” it makes it sound as if we somehow got conned into letting them have these laws. In reality powerfull people want these tools. Powerfull people get these tools. Where does the allowing happen exactly? And don’t tell me th…

> what does it mean to not “allow” a law? Voting against any politicians who contribute to its passing, even if they're from your preferred political party.

Ah yes! The old democracy will fix it argument.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#76

Post by dogorman »

dogma1138 wrote: post #32
dogorman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I brought up Russia to make the point that Israel isn't the only country that operates like this. But they are one of the countries that does and their reputation for it spans decades.

Operate like what?

> "doesn't seem to give a damn when criminal enterprises operating in their borders victimize people in other countries."

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#77

Post by golemiprague »

sharikone wrote: post #64

For politicians in democracies citizens are potential voters, foreigners don't matter. It's still arguably better than dictatorships, where your citizens don't matter either, as long as you have a good police system. We act surprised when we notice such things but we shouldn't be, it is a mistake to apply the same standards that we, as the lucky citizens of "free countries" enjoy, to any other system of power. From a…

I don't think it is the job of Israel to decide who is going to use it and how. Do we even know what countries are using it for? in most cases it is unknown. I find it a bit disingenuous that people who got no problem trading with countries like China suddenly find one case where some other country misused eavesdropping and manage to slap "Israel" in the headline as if it is their responsibility and they are the main issue here.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#78

Post by 71a54xd »

This is problematic and wrong, however, in today's climate I think the term "activist" is applied far too liberally. At times, so much that clear enemies of the state could also claim to be "activists". Another important distinction is that for journalists to be truly objective, most of the time that means they can't simultaneously be active as "activists".

Hard to think anyone is surprised that top-tier pay-to-play malware is being promulgated by Israeli firms...

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#79

Post by darig »

bambax wrote: post #33

> The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO’s hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only intended for use against criminals and terrorists. (from the Guardian inquiry about the same topic). Every time we allow special laws or special tools to fight "terrorism" or "child abuse" or other evils that get people worked up, they end u…

Every time someone tries to exterminate the culture/hybrid religious group of people generally responsible for such acts, someone cries hitler.

Do you want to fix the problem or not? What is "evil"? Are you prepared to stop being a hypocrite when you explore the question to its natural conclusion?

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