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Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 172 posts

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you sell an exploit and it's used in a crime you should be held accountable as if you sold a weapon to an enemy.

Would you want people who develop encryption algorithms held accountable if those algorithms are used to hide illegal activities?

No

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gamma Group, Hacking Team and a plethora of other European companies were/are in the same business.

I brought up Russia to make the point that Israel isn't the only country that operates like this. But they are one of the countries that does and their reputation for it spans decades.

Operate like what?

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#33
> The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO’s hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only intended for use against criminals and terrorists. (from the Guardian inquiry about the same topic).

Every time we allow special laws or special tools to fight "terrorism" or "child abuse" or other evils that get people worked up, they end up being used against the people in general. Every time. Why are we even surprised.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#34
post #30

Apologies for commenting before reading the article. But I'm curious what the sales process is for spyware. I understand the underground groups do all their stuff anonymously, but what sales ops do legitimate companies like NSO Group practice? Do they have sales targets/quotas? Do they vet their clients? What channels do they sell through?

Usually for profit companies are looking to boost profits and work near the legal limit if that means bigger returns.

This happens in finance, tech, food, pharma and pretty much all the industries that have a "legal" risk due regulation.

If breaking the law means a fine that sometimes is less than the profit then you can imagine that the incentive is to break the law.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you want people who develop encryption algorithms held accountable if those algorithms are used to hide illegal activities?

No

How is it different? They are tools that can be used for both legal and illegal means. If you put legal responsibility on one toolmaker to ensure their tools are not used in an illegal fashion, why wouldn't you do the same for other toolmakers?

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#36
post #30

Apologies for commenting before reading the article. But I'm curious what the sales process is for spyware. I understand the underground groups do all their stuff anonymously, but what sales ops do legitimate companies like NSO Group practice? Do they have sales targets/quotas? Do they vet their clients? What channels do they sell through?

Similar channels as any other arms manufacturer or defense contractor, as far as Israel goes they are regulated in the same manner by the same agency DECA.

They likely do not sell to anyone or for any reason that does not contribute to Israel’s foreign policy in some way or another.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#38
I'm not even surprised.

Snowden needs to repeat and remind people, over and over, that people should just not trust their electronics if they are doing sensitive work that somebody powerful elsewhere (government or a rich company) might not like.

I'm also curious how whatsapp/facebook will respond to those vulns. Hard to really trust them at all, it's really easy to imagine a conspiracy theory when intelligence agency negotiate inserting backdoors into popular software.

I'm really discouraged from working in computer security, it really looks like a shady industry.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#39

It would be really nice if I could own my phone to the point where I could install an outgoing firewall or harden the os to my abilities instead of blind trust into the diligent but not infallible vendor.

https://grapheneos.org/

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#40
I know it's not a foolproof solution but perhaps there should be a greater focus on ethics in Computer Science curricula? The Israeli developers who wrote this software may not even have been exposed to the moral and ethical questions writing such software ought to raise. Perhaps there should be trade associations for developers that calls out software companies that writes immoral software?

With great power comes great responsibility, and if you knowingly use your great power to write this kind of software you are a terrible person, in my opinion.

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