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Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

texastribune.org

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Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#41

Post by post_break »

frereubu wrote: post #34
post_break wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States that have passed these laws saw no dramatic increase in shootings, and optional permits actually went up in these states. Everything related to buying, owning, shooting a gun is exactly the same, the only difference is you no longer need to pay $50-400 to carry it on your person, which criminals do for free.

Ah, OK, so "no problem" in the sense that it hasn't made things any worse. Fair enough.

If anything it has made it better, which I'm sure a lot of people will roll their eyes at, but people are much less likely to start anything if they know most people are carrying. I know the media skews your views on america, but it's not like the movies, we're not over here root'n toot'n with our guns out like it's the wild west. I have lived in Texas for 10 years and have seen 1 or 2 guns in holsters. Every other one is concealed. I have never heard a gun shot other than a gun range, and have never witnessed anyone pull a gun or shoot one at someone. The only guns I've seen pulled are those of the police, pistols and rifles.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#42

Post by frereubu »

Grakel wrote: post #32
frereubu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: can you elaborate on "without any problems"? As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking, so I don't understand why lax gun laws like these are not a problem. The Bill Hicks quote "There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, and if you make one you're a fool and a communist" is perhaps overly simp…

There is very little gun violence in the US. What you're seeing is a media problem.

But if you look here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... - the USA has a very high per-capita gun homicide rate (4.46) compared to most other comparable countries (e.g. the G7 countries which are 0.2, 0.52, 2.33, 1.04, 1.13 and 0.02). Interesting that France (2.33) is so high - I hadn't realised that.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#43

Post by procgen »

kryogen1c wrote: post #37
frereubu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: can you elaborate on "without any problems"? As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking, so I don't understand why lax gun laws like these are not a problem. The Bill Hicks quote "There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, and if you make one you're a fool and a communist" is perhaps overly simp…

> As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking this is probably a perception problem. the uk doesnt have guns but has much higher violent crime with knives. in some ways, stabbing is much more violent and interpersonally malicious than pulling a trigger. there is a very close prevalence of violent crime per capita in US and UK, its just that stab wounds are easier to trest than gunshots. th…

It's more of a problem where more Americans live, is what you're saying.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#44

Post by post_break »

procgen wrote: post #38
post_break wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true though and has always been the case. Working odd hours not the usual 8-5, might not have a car so walking to work sometimes at night, living in heavy crime areas because it's affordable. I'm not projecting, just calling it like it is and why this bill is a good thing in the eyes of the people who don't even consider this sane.

A gun wants to be used. Let's let it simmer a few more decades and see what happens.

Ok Vermont has had it for decades. You can be 16 years old and carry in that state. Resident and non-resident. Wait and see has passed.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#45

Post by jandrewrogers »

frereubu wrote: post #22
mehphp wrote: post #6

I thought this was a terrible idea until I realized that other states are already doing it without any problems.

Genuine question: can you elaborate on "without any problems"? As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking, so I don't understand why lax gun laws like these are not a problem. The Bill Hicks quote "There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, and if you make one you're a fool and a communist" is perhaps overly simp…

As a practical reality, the vast majority of Americans never see gun violence their entire lives, it isn't part of their lived experience. They view guns as a tool, not a significant risk. Almost all of the gun violence is concentrated in a handful of neighborhoods with long histories of violent crime generally where, ironically, gun possession is often illegal.

Technically speaking, Americans can legally own almost any weapon they can safely store. There are even a few ballistic missiles floating around the US in private hands.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#46

Post by frereubu »

kryogen1c wrote: post #37
frereubu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: can you elaborate on "without any problems"? As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking, so I don't understand why lax gun laws like these are not a problem. The Bill Hicks quote "There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, and if you make one you're a fool and a communist" is perhaps overly simp…

> As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking this is probably a perception problem. the uk doesnt have guns but has much higher violent crime with knives. in some ways, stabbing is much more violent and interpersonally malicious than pulling a trigger. there is a very close prevalence of violent crime per capita in US and UK, its just that stab wounds are easier to trest than gunshots. th…

Fair point in some ways - perhaps knife crime is higher here. But on balance it's surely better to have violent crime that's more likely to involve treatable outcomes rather than death?

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#47

Post by throwaway210222 »

kryogen1c wrote: post #37
frereubu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: can you elaborate on "without any problems"? As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking, so I don't understand why lax gun laws like these are not a problem. The Bill Hicks quote "There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, and if you make one you're a fool and a communist" is perhaps overly simp…

> As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking this is probably a perception problem. the uk doesnt have guns but has much higher violent crime with knives. in some ways, stabbing is much more violent and interpersonally malicious than pulling a trigger. there is a very close prevalence of violent crime per capita in US and UK, its just that stab wounds are easier to trest than gunshots. th…

You will also find knife-crime in Europe (especially the UK) is just as concentrated, if not more, to a few inner-city neighbourhoods.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#48

Post by frereubu »

post_break wrote: post #41
frereubu wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, OK, so "no problem" in the sense that it hasn't made things any worse. Fair enough.

If anything it has made it better, which I'm sure a lot of people will roll their eyes at, but people are much less likely to start anything if they know most people are carrying. I know the media skews your views on america, but it's not like the movies, we're not over here root'n toot'n with our guns out like it's the wild west. I have lived in Texas for 10 years and have seen 1 or 2 guns in holsters. Every other o…

Yeah, having visited a few times I get that the media portrayal of the US being a 21st century Western is off. And I sort of get the idea that "people are much less likely to start anything if they know most people are carrying". But there's a tacit assumption in there that criminals have guns. For all that legal owners may not be a problem in the vast majority of cases, the more firearms there are, the bigger the pool of firearms there are for criminals to get their hands on. Having read through a few of these responses it seems to boil down to how much US citizens trust their government compared to other countries. The fact that there are federal bodies - such as the army - with enough firepower to flatten a city, yet people insist on carrying guns because they don't trust the government feels a bit off. But I think I'm straying from your point there.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#49

Post by chmod600 »

frereubu wrote: post #22
mehphp wrote: post #6

I thought this was a terrible idea until I realized that other states are already doing it without any problems.

Genuine question: can you elaborate on "without any problems"? As a European I find the level of gun violence in the US to be shocking, so I don't understand why lax gun laws like these are not a problem. The Bill Hicks quote "There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone, and if you make one you're a fool and a communist" is perhaps overly simp…

This article is specifically about lawful carrying, not ownership. Criminals generally don't care whether carrying is lawful or not, so you wouldn't expect this particular law to matter a lot.

There just aren't a lot of cases where someone without any criminal intent carrying a gun all of a sudden gets mad and starts shooting people over an insult or something.

You are kind of right that the sheer volume of guns in the US, more than one per person (even if you count babies), could contribute to the homicide rate by making it easier for prohibited owners to still acquire a gun. But even that is complicated and has a lot of nuance.

The murders are very localized here to areas which throw off the average, and are much more strongly associated with factors other than guns. If you aren't in one of those areas, the murder rate is much lower.

In my opinion, guns are mostly fine most places in the US. But the general availability of guns does enable volent areas to be more violent based on specific local problems.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#50

Post by orwin »

post_break wrote: post #35
procgen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A lot of poor people need to carry a gun for protection" How utterly dystopian.

It's true though and has always been the case. Working odd hours not the usual 8-5, might not have a car so walking to work sometimes at night, living in heavy crime areas because it's affordable. I'm not projecting, just calling it like it is and why this bill is a good thing in the eyes of the people who don't even consider this sane.

" Don't carry a gun if you're not ready to draw it, don't draw a gun if you're not ready to shoot. "

-Every gun instructor ever.

The issue is if someone wnat to jump on you and you have a gun, especially with no training, you'll be more dangerous to yourself than anyone wanting your wallet. I got robbed three time, because i was in the situation you describe (no money so have to live in high crime area, no car, and odd hours coz i had to finance my studies). I resisted one time, the first one. Trip to the hospital, police station, wasted a day for nothing after the robbery.

The two others i was polite, gave them my money ( rarely have more than 20 on me) and they let me keep my credit cards, ID and my phone (my shitty firefox OS did not impress them). I wouldn't be able to shoot at someone, so a gun on me is lost, and i think especially in a high crime area, walking with a gun would be a bad idea (and i know how to use one)

And i hope you have good armorers in TX with this law, because is someone want to buy a SW500 or the new tech S&W (don't have the name) and never used a gun before, they might kill their aggressor, but most likely not touch them, loose a hand in the process.

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