Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year • Hacker News Board

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#191

Post by qudat » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #36

davnn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not so clear cut. If you live your life according to a Mediterranean lifestyle and drink your glass of wine each day (mostly in a social setting, which is especially important when you grow older), you will be healthier than most other people.

If you live that same life and drink a glass of grape juice instead of wine everyday, you'll live even longer. Alcohol is a poisson and there is no "safe" level. Now, it's a personal decision how much risk is acceptable to you, but don't lie to yourself how "one glass a day is not going to make a difference".

There are a lot of alcohol apologists in this thread. Its one of the most dangerous drugs in humanity and we have people claiming it can be beneficial under the right circumstances.

Even if that were true, it does orders of magnitude more harm than good, and should be considered a poison.

We absolutely do not want to propagate the idea that it can be heathy if consumed responsibly.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#192

Post by nucleardog » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

rannor wrote: post #190

bserge wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only a poison though, it also has medicinal properties. Helps with relaxation, anxiety and even acts as a short term antidepressant. With that in mind, there is a safe level, just as there is with paracetamol. Of course, having better medication is, well, better. But not everyone has access to it. That said I have been struggling with it ever since I can remember and I wish I never tried it. It's very hard t…

“ acts as a short term antidepressant” No, it’s very definitely a depressant. Some might get ecstatic momentarily, but they’re likely to be crying within minutes, or maybe even trying to commit murder or rape — one of the worse side effects of alcohol is criminal behavior.

People who drink are “likely to be crying” or “trying to commit murder or rape”?

You need to stop getting your information from high school MADD presentations.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#193

Post by warble » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

hrh wrote: post #153

schindlabua wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've developed a pretty strong aversion it's true. To the point where being high doesn't feel nice anymore. I also know two people with PhDs who smoke, they are the kind that limit themselves to smoking in the evening. But then I also know at least 4 people in their late twenties who prefer weed and gaming over getting a job. Both groups are the exception. Most of my friends still smoke so I'm fine with it, but I'm 1…

Think through your last two paragraphs. Yeah, people that feel good are probably going to be more productive than those feeling bad (assuming you're not feeling too good). I can't do the stuff you're talking about when I'm not high (or couldn't) because I couldn't stop anxiety and other issues from getting in the way. Weed liberates me from that. I have friends that hate weed, friends that become different people whi…

I know a couple people who didn't get anxiety issues until they started smoking. I think there's a portion of the population (not necessarily you) who feel they need it when the anxiety is actually just a weed hangover.

It definitely hits different people differently. My wife doesn't get high. I've seen her smoke good weed and she didn't change in demeanor at all and claimed it didn't do anything.

Personally all it makes me do is think about how shitty my life is for hours (hint: my life is fine..it's just the weed) although some indica stuff will make me giggle for an hour before I pass out. I'm worse than useless when high.

There's a huge range in response.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#194

Post by clusterfish » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

Falkon1313 wrote: post #114

flunhat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the paper, > Globally, an estimated 741 300 (95% UI 558 500–951 200), or 4.1% (3.1–5.3), of all new cases of cancer in 2020 were attributable to alcohol consumption. Males accounted for 568 700 (76.7%; 95% UI 422 500–731 100) of total alcohol-attributable cancer cases, and cancers of the oesophagus (189 700 cases [110 900–274 600]), liver (154 700 cases [43 700–281 500]), and breast (98 300 cases [68 200–130 500…

Well one other way to frame it would be that 96% of the people who got cancer were not regular drinkers. When you consider how many people are regular drinkers (and how low the bar is set - only 2 drinks per day) vs how many people get cancer (39.5%), then if only 4% of cancer occurred in regular drinkers, then you would naturally draw the conclusion that regular drinking appears to prevent cancer. But that goes agai…

> Well one other way to frame it would be that 96% of the people who got cancer were not regular drinkers.

No, that's just bullshit. 4% of cases being attributed to alcohol does not mean that only 4% of cancer patients are drinkers.

You don't even understand how risk attribution works, but are happy to spin your own narrative.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#195

Post by scrps » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

neveradmitmyid wrote: post #147

ninkendo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people claim to get a lot of creative work done while stoned but those people probably haven't tried doing it sober for too long. After smoking every single day for about 5 years I decided to test this hypothesis about a year ago (I had my first kid on the way and didn’t want to be one of those parents that smoked weed.) I also surmised that maybe I really needed to get it all out of my system - by not smoking…

I'm a heavy smoker - an oz of Indica with 2 grams of powder hash added per week is my mix of choice. I've been a heavy smoker since the 70's, and a computer science research scientist pretty much the entire time. I know I am an outlier, but there are more than a few like us: people that find marihuana to aid in their ability to focus. The work that I do is basically all day calculus, and being high enables my to hype…

Same for me, not quite sure it helps me to focus as much as it simply relaxes me enough to allow me to focus better. I think it might have to do with (for me at least) the effects sort of tamping down the signals from my body and allowing me to be more brain-forward if that makes sense. Also helps me cut some of the distracting noise from anxiety.

While I enjoy a drink, booze gives me splitting headaches within 15-20 minutes of drinking anything more than a small (40-50ml) amount.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#196

Post by rannor » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

nucleardog wrote: post #192

rannor wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ acts as a short term antidepressant” No, it’s very definitely a depressant. Some might get ecstatic momentarily, but they’re likely to be crying within minutes, or maybe even trying to commit murder or rape — one of the worse side effects of alcohol is criminal behavior.

People who drink are “likely to be crying” or “trying to commit murder or rape”? You need to stop getting your information from high school MADD presentations.

“Therefore, much drink may be said to be an equivocator with lechery. It makes him, and it mars him; it sets him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him, and disheartens him; makes him stand to and not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him.”

The wisdom of ages, or if you prefer,

“Robbery and violent crimes often involve alcohol use, and there is a positive correlation between such crimes and alcohol use. 15% of robberies, 63% of intimate partner violence incidents, 37% of sexual assaults, 45-46% of physical assaults and 40-45% of homicides in the United States involved use of alcohol.”

So not just merriment and conviviality. There’s a flip side.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#197

Post by sidlls » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

theo102 wrote: post #81

fuzxi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number I see frequently as the threshold of "heavy drinking" is 15 drinks per week, so I certainly agree that it's not accurate to call 14 drinks per week "moderate". 15 drinks per week is actually the limit here for commercial drivers. If you admit to drinking more than that during your annual/semi-annual DMV physical, you have essentially just admitted to alcoholism and can't keep driving class A/B vehicles unl…

and these limits are set arbitrarily and are often even more detrimental. If you know the doc says you can have 14 but not 15, you now have a target to be "ok" when you show up to the doctor. If the gap between 14 and 15 is linear and not somehow logarithmic then you're telling me that consuming exactly two drinks a day will be fine, but that extra scotch you have on friday makes you an alcoholic. This term is thrown…

Techies especially are a gullible lot, susceptible to new age nonsense, anti-vax style pseudoscience, and a glut of other anti-science things. At least in the Bay Area. It’s ridiculous to see how quickly they take to any fad.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#198

Post by amanaplanacanal » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

schindlabua wrote: post #100

theo102 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and these limits are set arbitrarily and are often even more detrimental. If you know the doc says you can have 14 but not 15, you now have a target to be "ok" when you show up to the doctor. If the gap between 14 and 15 is linear and not somehow logarithmic then you're telling me that consuming exactly two drinks a day will be fine, but that extra scotch you have on friday makes you an alcoholic. This term is thrown…

Weed cost me 5 years of my life that I'm never getting back. It's great if some people can form better habits than me but all the weed users I know (plenty) use it every day all day. The biggest detriment is opportunity cost, time you'd spend doing something exciting or productive is spent on watching your Netflix queue instead. Some people claim to get a lot of creative work done while stoned but those people probab…

I spent a great deal of my younger years stoned, and one day in my early 20s decided that weed was basically complete boring, and quit.

But the people I know who smoke do if in the evening or on weekends, and are nothing like what you describe.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#199

Post by amanaplanacanal » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #36

davnn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not so clear cut. If you live your life according to a Mediterranean lifestyle and drink your glass of wine each day (mostly in a social setting, which is especially important when you grow older), you will be healthier than most other people.

If you live that same life and drink a glass of grape juice instead of wine everyday, you'll live even longer. Alcohol is a poisson and there is no "safe" level. Now, it's a personal decision how much risk is acceptable to you, but don't lie to yourself how "one glass a day is not going to make a difference".

My situation is almost certainly different from yours. I'm 64, retired, and a cancer survivor. I'm not worried in the least about having an extra drink or two. Life is to be lived and enjoyed.

If I give that up, how much extra lifespan should I expect on average? A week? A month? A year?

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#200

Post by yarcob » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #199

yarcob wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live that same life and drink a glass of grape juice instead of wine everyday, you'll live even longer. Alcohol is a poisson and there is no "safe" level. Now, it's a personal decision how much risk is acceptable to you, but don't lie to yourself how "one glass a day is not going to make a difference".

My situation is almost certainly different from yours. I'm 64, retired, and a cancer survivor. I'm not worried in the least about having an extra drink or two. Life is to be lived and enjoyed. If I give that up, how much extra lifespan should I expect on average? A week? A month? A year?

I'm not saying you shouldn't drink. It's your body, do whatever you want! Most enjoyable things have some level of risk.

I'm just saying that there is a risk, and people should be aware of that fact.

Someone out there is going to be unlucky and get colon cancer from their daily glass of wine. And they probably think it's just bad luck, it can't be from alcohol because they drink just one glass a day.

(Reminds me of a relative who likes talking about how his daily glass of red wine made him live to 90. I think it's the successful chemo treatment for his throat cancer that made him live to 90, but I'm not a doctor)