Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year • Hacker News Board

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#81

Post by theo102 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:49 AM UTC

fuzxi wrote: post #54

michaelmrose wrote: post #43

It is frustrating that they lump in any amount of alcohol up to 2 drinks per day as moderate which honestly isn't all that moderate. Still another way to read that is that while alcohol represents a real risk to community health resources you can mitigate 86% of the risk by limiting yourself to ONLY 68 gallons (257 liters) of beer this year. I would not be terribly surprised if most of the issues with moderate drinke…

The number I see frequently as the threshold of "heavy drinking" is 15 drinks per week, so I certainly agree that it's not accurate to call 14 drinks per week "moderate". 15 drinks per week is actually the limit here for commercial drivers. If you admit to drinking more than that during your annual/semi-annual DMV physical, you have essentially just admitted to alcoholism and can't keep driving class A/B vehicles unl…

and these limits are set arbitrarily and are often even more detrimental. If you know the doc says you can have 14 but not 15, you now have a target to be "ok" when you show up to the doctor.

If the gap between 14 and 15 is linear and not somehow logarithmic then you're telling me that consuming exactly two drinks a day will be fine, but that extra scotch you have on friday makes you an alcoholic. This term is thrown around loosely by people who have never actually met an alcoholic. Even a high functioning "weekend warrior" is noticeable.

The total risk for serious liver damage drinking a 6 pack a day for over 10 years is only 18%. Of these people, around 13% develop into cirrhosis. No one has been able to explain why. For some people, especially women, the effects of alcohol are far more damaging. Much like BMI, population statistics are not as useful as what actually matters. Body mass per unit alcohol consumed. A smaller person drinking 15 drinks a week may develop health problems. A 180 pound male may or may not.

Am I encouraging drinking that heavily because the risk is 18%? No not at all. I am simply stating that these "drink limits" are arbitrary and completely and entirely made up. Mediterraneans, regularly cited for their longevity, consume more than 15 drinks a week on a regular basis.

HN is filled with these pop-sci teetotalers who rag on alcohol but promote the uninhibited abuse of THC and other dangerous mind altering drugs. It's an absurd bizzaro world.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#82

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

danuker wrote: post #66

DoreenMichele wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine. As long as you state clearly it's correlation and not proven causation and we don't know the exact mechanism and yadda. I'm trying to walk away from a completely ridiculous pile on from an excessive number of people here. This is not a productive conversation at all and I have no idea why it went so wildly sideways.

> completely ridiculous pile on I believe people reacted because you downplayed the importance of the study (at least I did). Just because it doesn't outright prove causation, doesn't mean we should not pay attention. In the past decades, public health suffered immensely due to "benefit of the doubt" given to smoking. Cigarette companies used the same arguments as you: “Sure there are statistics associating lung canc…

[deleted]

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#83

Post by taurath » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

jsbdk wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That limit wouldn't work in many countries.

Because those countries are either under the fiscal control of Big Booze (taxes), or they are under control of criminal enterprises (usually from neighboring country)

Or the culture is such that people regularly use alcohol both for pleasure and to avoid their emotional issues. Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#84

Post by cpursley » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #64

geesh. how about doing a generalized survey similar to this on a country level, like there are "muslim majority" countries where alcohol is either banned or is present to a level that it doesnt matter. do those countries see less cancers than say france or any european country or the usa which does have an extensive alcohol use?

It's mentioned in the post; I suggest reading it first.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#85

Post by theo102 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #36

davnn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not so clear cut. If you live your life according to a Mediterranean lifestyle and drink your glass of wine each day (mostly in a social setting, which is especially important when you grow older), you will be healthier than most other people.

If you live that same life and drink a glass of grape juice instead of wine everyday, you'll live even longer. Alcohol is a poisson and there is no "safe" level. Now, it's a personal decision how much risk is acceptable to you, but don't lie to yourself how "one glass a day is not going to make a difference".

The dose makes the poison. The same could be true for nearly any other drug.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#86

Post by theo102 » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #83

eurasiantiger wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those countries are either under the fiscal control of Big Booze (taxes), or they are under control of criminal enterprises (usually from neighboring country)

Or the culture is such that people regularly use alcohol both for pleasure and to avoid their emotional issues. Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them.

> Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them.

Who hurt you?

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#87

Post by mjfl » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 9:02 AM UTC

Alcohol is metabolized into aldehydes which cross link your DNA, literally preserving you as you are alive. It is a biological miracle that your body has DNA repair enzymes which can basically shrug this off. If we didn't have those enzymes drinking alcohol would lead to similar symptoms as radiation poisoning.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#88

Post by wyattpeak » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

theo102 wrote: post #86

taurath wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the culture is such that people regularly use alcohol both for pleasure and to avoid their emotional issues. Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them.

> Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them. Who hurt you?

I think the parent is expressing a common line of thought in such cultures, not making a statement of their own beliefs.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#89

Post by the-dude » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #43

It is frustrating that they lump in any amount of alcohol up to 2 drinks per day as moderate which honestly isn't all that moderate. Still another way to read that is that while alcohol represents a real risk to community health resources you can mitigate 86% of the risk by limiting yourself to ONLY 68 gallons (257 liters) of beer this year. I would not be terribly surprised if most of the issues with moderate drinke…

And keep in mind alcoholics are under-reporters ( that is, they probably drink more than they admit ).

Disclaimer : former 'functioning' alcoholic.

Re: Cancer risks increase with alcohol use, leading to over 740k cases last year

#90

Post by unixhero » Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

machinehermiter wrote: post #77

refurb wrote: post #16

My sister works as a nurse in a geriatric department her attitude is “if I make it to 70 I’m going to start smoking”. She’s seen plenty of people with healthy bodies and destroyed minds to know she’s rather avoid that kind of fate.

65-70 is my age for this. No kids/grandkids for me so I don't see much value in old age. I have to live now and only have 15-20 good years left. Once that time comes it is time to party. Cigars, weed and rum. A broken down physical body with an even more broken down mind is a fate worse than death to me.

Dude that is a depressing attitude you have to life.