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Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#131

Post by dogleash »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #100
the_third_wave wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it suddenly with all this talk about racism ? > Racism in SF or LA is bad... > ...having to deal with racism in Boise, Idaho, for example, was something they didn't feel comfortable with... Who are those racists and in what way do they express their racism? I'm a European who has been on your side of the Atlantic and Pacific quite often for work- and leisure-related purposes over a period of several decades.…

I mean a decade ago we didn’t have social media that allowed minorities to say and record their experiences. Makes sense to me that once minorities don’t have to work around a gatekeeper like MSM that suddenly everyone realizes what a shitshow it is. There were countless George Floyds before George Floyd but only now we have people with cameras to capture it and put it somewhere for everyone to see.

>only now we have people with cameras to capture it and put it somewhere for everyone to see.

The Rodney King beating was in 1991.

Your whole post is an inaccurate depiction of awareness of race relations pre-internet. Pretending like nobody was aware is just a convenient narrative for people who have made race relations a bigger part of their politics in the recent years.

Because the alternative is admitting that they knew damn well but didn't care about it as much. Which would be the truth, but is too uncomfortable to admit.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#132

Post by shuckles »

muzz wrote: post #109
nine_zeros wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non trivial amount of strong immigrant engineers are in SV. Ask me how hard it is to hire hundreds of engineers without faang funding in a tier 2 city.

Strong immigrant engineers that came in the 1990s now have adult children that in the workforce. A personal anecdote, it was indeed a bit surprising to hear my coworker at a startup mention that his mother joined a startup.

I’ve worked at startups where a third of the workforce share the same Bay Area high school alma matter. The scale of the ecosystem is without compare.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#133

Post by dragonwriter »

dogleash wrote: post #131
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean a decade ago we didn’t have social media that allowed minorities to say and record their experiences. Makes sense to me that once minorities don’t have to work around a gatekeeper like MSM that suddenly everyone realizes what a shitshow it is. There were countless George Floyds before George Floyd but only now we have people with cameras to capture it and put it somewhere for everyone to see.

>only now we have people with cameras to capture it and put it somewhere for everyone to see. The Rodney King beating was in 1991. Your whole post is an inaccurate depiction of awareness of race relations pre-internet. Pretending like nobody was aware is just a convenient narrative for people who have made race relations a bigger part of their politics in the recent years. Because the alternative is admitting that th…

> The Rodney King beating was in 1991.

Sure, but it was portrayable as an isolated, extreme incident because similar events captured on video rather than by word of mouth and the mass violence resulting from the media attention to it made it less, rather than more, likely that similar incidence, even if similarly captured, would get similar attention from the oligopoly establishment media while it had no mass grassroots alternative.

So, unless you mean that to support GPs point, I’m not sure why you point it out.

> Pretending like nobody was aware is just a convenient narrative for people who have made race relations a bigger part of their politics in the recent years.

Whites who weren't personally perpetrators or direct witnesses of racist acts (and even those that were occasional witnesses) were less likely to be aware of the spectrum of racist harassment and violence experienced by Blacks in the US before universal omnipresent cameras and grassroots media to distribute and virally redistribute recordings made the aggregate of individual instances that would have largely never been recorded previously and most of which, even if they had been recorded would have either been individually too minor for the news to cover at all or to inflammatory to cover in an unfiltered way.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#134

Post by dogleash »

dragonwriter wrote: post #133
dogleash wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>only now we have people with cameras to capture it and put it somewhere for everyone to see. The Rodney King beating was in 1991. Your whole post is an inaccurate depiction of awareness of race relations pre-internet. Pretending like nobody was aware is just a convenient narrative for people who have made race relations a bigger part of their politics in the recent years. Because the alternative is admitting that th…

> The Rodney King beating was in 1991. Sure, but it was portrayable as an isolated, extreme incident because similar events captured on video rather than by word of mouth and the mass violence resulting from the media attention to it made it less, rather than more, likely that similar incidence, even if similarly captured, would get similar attention from the oligopoly establishment media while it had no mass grassro…

>before universal omnipresent cameras and grassroots media to distribute

Back then people used to actually talk to eachother instead making some small talk in between stretches of staring at their phones all day.

>Whites who weren't personally perpetrators or direct witnesses of racist acts (and even those that were occasional witnesses) were less likely to be aware of the spectrum of racist harassment

I've never had a conversation with an old timer about what it was like back in their day where they weren't extremely in tune with race relations in their hometown with the kind of specificity and subtleties that twitter and other media today just don't have the capacity for.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#135

Post by kentrado »

refurb wrote: post #37
salt-thrower wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is massive consolidation of wealth for VCs and unicorn startups, fueled by a speculative investment environment, seen as "progressive?"

That’s a bit of a cop out. The Bay Area had some of the most progressive politicians and progressive policies in the country. I’ve seen plenty of progressives claim “they aren’t true progressives” but that comes across as a bit of a “no true Scotsman” argument that you hear from defenders of communism. And it begs the question - if no one has been able to attain “true” whatever, is it really even an option?

No true Scotsman is only a fallacy when you are never given a definition of what a true Scotsman is. That's when the fallacy appears. When the person saying it can always retreat to an ambiguous never stated definition. He won't tell you what a real Scotsman is, but he will have the authority to tell you any examples you show him are not it.

For communism and socialism you are given the definition time and time again but people in your position always choose to ignore it and repeat the no true Scotsman meme.

I can tell you the definition, in exchange of you not using that meme anymore. Sounds fair?

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#136

Post by dragonwriter »

dogleash wrote: post #134
dragonwriter wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Rodney King beating was in 1991. Sure, but it was portrayable as an isolated, extreme incident because similar events captured on video rather than by word of mouth and the mass violence resulting from the media attention to it made it less, rather than more, likely that similar incidence, even if similarly captured, would get similar attention from the oligopoly establishment media while it had no mass grassro…

>before universal omnipresent cameras and grassroots media to distribute Back then people used to actually talk to eachother instead making some small talk in between stretches of staring at their phones all day. >Whites who weren't personally perpetrators or direct witnesses of racist acts (and even those that were occasional witnesses) were less likely to be aware of the spectrum of racist harassment I've never had…

> I've never had a conversation with an old timer about what it was like back in their day where they weren't extremely in tune with race relations in their hometown with the kind of specificity and subtleties that twitter and other media today just don't have the capacity for.

I’ve had plenty with white oldtimers that weren't, even oldtimers who clearly think (or thought at the time) that they were. Oh, sure, they'd have a detailed narrative of race relations, but the details in the narrative would often have as much to do with reality as a Baghdad Bob press briefing.

Because, see, I am a bit of an oldtimer, and not-white (but also raised by educated middle class white parents), so not only could I hear the detailed narratives with their convenient stories about rsce relations and all the narratives around culture, education, etc. that painted a rosy picture of race qua race, I also was kind of optimally positioned to see through the B.S. of many of those narratives.

Yeah, people told stories, but they told them within their in-group, and selected and embellished them to fit their own worldview and the image they wanted to project of themselves and their identity group.

Of course, in a sense that's still the same now, but there is a lot more spread of unfiltered recordings of events outside a narrow oligopolistic media system and unfiltered escape of messages sent within one group to those outside of the group.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#137

Post by syshum »

muzz wrote: post #112
syshum wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont worry, most of California is moving to Texas, so Texas will be just like California in no time, long before "decades", so you will not need to move back California is coming to you

The data I've seen contradicts your assertion https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bay-area-exodus-that-wasnt-...

Well that is a pay-walled site, and I refuse to support any "mainstream" media at this point so I will not be buying a subscription to view your link

but he headline seem to be talking SanFran, but I can not know for sure

However actual statewide data, based on US Census totals, shows that over all CA is one of only a few states that have a net Population LOSS over the last 10 years, so much so they are losing a congressional seat.

I will link to some non-paywall sites for you, like proper Netiquette dictates

[1] https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/05/07/...

[2] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/californias-population-f...

[3] https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/california/californi...

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#138

Post by yardie »

ta0x9 wrote: post #130
yardie wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting for one of these responses to arrive. And just like clockwork... So let's dig in: > If I can believe the current narrative things have been going from bad to worse to black people walk the streets in fear of their lives from racist cops in the last few years. In fact, just the opposite. It was worse before, but has slowly gotten better. Black artists have been making songs and paintings about corrupt an…

I was waiting for one of these responses to arrive. And just like clockwork... So let's dig in: >>the 4th of July supposedly celebrates independence for only part of the population >Umm yeah, that declaration was for land owning, white men. Native Americans didn't get theirs until 1965. We celebrated it but we knew it wasn't "for us" Using this illogic, you shouldn't celebrate or support the Democratic party, they're…

> you shouldn't celebrate or support the Democratic party, they're the party of slavery, secession, Jim Crow, and segregation

Well up to 1964 the majority of black voters were registered Republicans. And then something happened. The same Jim Crow, segregationist Democrat party went through deep structural change and pushed through the Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, Immigration Naturalization Act.

You’re under the impression there were 2 political parties. In fact, there were 4: Northern Democrats, Norther Republicans, Southern Democrats, and Southern Republicans. Those southern democrats (Dixiecrats) left the Democratic Party and became southern Republicans. So, the party of Jim Crow is now Republican. It’s still the same people, they just switched the name plate in the door.

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#139

Post by [deleted] »

yardie wrote: post #138
ta0x9 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting for one of these responses to arrive. And just like clockwork... So let's dig in: >>the 4th of July supposedly celebrates independence for only part of the population >Umm yeah, that declaration was for land owning, white men. Native Americans didn't get theirs until 1965. We celebrated it but we knew it wasn't "for us" Using this illogic, you shouldn't celebrate or support the Democratic party, they're…

> you shouldn't celebrate or support the Democratic party, they're the party of slavery, secession, Jim Crow, and segregation Well up to 1964 the majority of black voters were registered Republicans. And then something happened. The same Jim Crow, segregationist Democrat party went through deep structural change and pushed through the Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, Immigration Naturalization Act. You’re under t…

[deleted]

Re: Tech workers swore off the Bay Area, now they’re coming back

#140

Post by [deleted] »

yardie wrote: post #138
ta0x9 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting for one of these responses to arrive. And just like clockwork... So let's dig in: >>the 4th of July supposedly celebrates independence for only part of the population >Umm yeah, that declaration was for land owning, white men. Native Americans didn't get theirs until 1965. We celebrated it but we knew it wasn't "for us" Using this illogic, you shouldn't celebrate or support the Democratic party, they're…

> you shouldn't celebrate or support the Democratic party, they're the party of slavery, secession, Jim Crow, and segregation Well up to 1964 the majority of black voters were registered Republicans. And then something happened. The same Jim Crow, segregationist Democrat party went through deep structural change and pushed through the Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, Immigration Naturalization Act. You’re under t…

[deleted]
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