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Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

polygon.com

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Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#161

Post by viraptor »

krisoft wrote: post #125
viraptor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned recommendations and top videos. It doesn't matter if you visit the front page - there's a good chance you've seen Mark Robber's video thumbnail, whether you browse YT for content or not.

I have a bad news for you: youtube tailors their recommendations to each person. I know! It is difficult to belive. Sarcasm aside I don’t know who this Mark person is. Never heard of him, never seen a video from him. And I’m quite okay with that. If you were to ask me what is trending on youtube I would tell you it is woodworking videos, zany snippets from musicals, and people discussing how a windpowered car can tra…

Try reading with a stronger interpretation. Of course I know recommendations are per-person - consider why I wrote that comment anyway. There's also a few videos digging into why Mark Robber's videos are consistently winning the popularity contest while others aren't.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#162

Post by OJFord »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #138
goguy wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parents/guardians?

How would they know? I'm a parent, I didn't know until this thread. It's not like the arcade tells you that.

Just worldly experience, and observation that approximately nobody wins anything ever while approximately everybody has an Oooh so close catch?

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#163

Post by OJFord »

dogorman wrote: post #141
rootsudo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, it's called probability and statistics. Doesn't mean kids care. Or teachers, or parents.

> By the time they reach high school: Every kid should know [statistics] Maybe things have changed. But when I was in highschool in America in the early 00s, statistics was an optional math class offered to juniors. Nobody had taken stats before reaching highschool, which is what the GP calls for, and kids in the "artistic track" weren't required to take stats at all.

Then top level comment is right, they should, that should change (assuming what you're saying is accurate).

Perhaps GP is not from the US. In the UK, statistics is not separate to mathematics, and is first met in primary school (even in three-school areas more analogue to the US) getting progressively more advanced up to and through (compulsorily until sixth form - the two years prior to university) 'high school'.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#164

Post by suction »

When I lived in Japan, I was really surprised what the average Japanese person thought about Arcades. There are Sega-, Taito-, Konami- and other branded Arcades in the bigger cities, but "normal" people wouldn't go near them, because they are run by the Yakuza or Yakuza-owned front businesses. With the ongoing rumours that Konami itself is a Yakuza company (see the news around the Hideo Kojima firing scandal) and Nintendo having started as a supplier for Yakuza gambling parlours, I wonder if video game arcades in Japan are simply the modern version of those gambling parlours. So if there are rigged arcade machines, I am not surprised.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#165

Post by suction »

danans wrote: post #20

As an aside, I had no idea Sega were still making "old fashioned" mechanical games, which is how they started with slot machines and jukeboxes in the 1940s. I thought they had long since become a mobile game and IP licensing company (i.e. Sonic the Hedgehog)

Sega also runs Sega-branded arcades in Japan. They even have virtual horse-racing games where the patrons can game real money and watch the "races" on a huge screen. Actual video games are about 50% of all the machines in there, the rest is all gambling-related, like electronic versions of slot machines and also the ubiquitous rigged "UFO-Catcher" games (where you move an arm to grab a prize).

But here's the thing: Once you step into an arcade in Japan, it's absolutely obvious that you've entered a shady business run by shady people (so in Japan - the Yakuza). It's a dark, smoke-filled room with no windows, and always in the shadier parts of the city next to massage parlours and hooker bars.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#166

Post by jacquesm »

garethsaxby wrote: post #48

I remember a long time ago in the UK, around 2003 or so, there was a similar problem with Fruit Machines (Slot machines found in UK bars and pubs). Through dumping the ROMs and emulating the machines, it was found that the machines were effectively forcing losses at certain points in gameplay; from the same memory state, you bet high and the machine goes low, or you bet low and the machine goes high, giving you zero…

Interesting, I know Stuart from quite a while ago. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#167

Post by psyc »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #137
Uberphallus wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're certainly scummy but, I mean, this isn't any different from the claw crane machines that are usually exempted from gambling laws under certain conditions (win chance, prize value, where they're located, etc); machines that nobody expects to be fair.

> machines that nobody expects to be fair I for sure did. In fact, on my long list of "someday/maybe" projects, there was this one entry sitting for some 15 years now: build a little machine for the claw crane game, that would time a button press perfectly. I just saw the video where Mark Rober does this to another arcade game[0], so I won't bother anymore - I can already guess the outcome. I also don't know anyone e…

Is random claw machines a recent scam?

About 30 years ago, my siblings and I went through a claw machine mania phase. We sampled every machine in a 30 mile radius, and found that the ones that slipped, always slipped. And the ones that gripped, gripped pretty frequently. Once we figured out which claws would actually grab, we won constantly. We collected around 50 stuffed animals over the course of a year.

Or maybe we were being superstitious. At any rate, we felt quite claw-machine-rich.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#168

Post by GuB-42 »

jjeaff wrote: post #99
GuB-42 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the arcade, you get exactly 0% of your money back. You may get a prize though. It is the thing that makes it not gambling. In a casino, there is the risk of spending more than your disposable income, hoping to get your money back. In an arcade, you know that once the money is in the machine, it is gone, less chance to overspend. The main point of anti-gambling laws is to prevent addicts from ruining themselves, no…

I've seen plenty of arcade machines with cash prizes disbursed among the other prizes.

Where? I have never seen one.

Legislation vary wildly, so I suppose they are legal in some places and illegal in others.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#169

Post by taneq »

grishka wrote: post #158
rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

Back when we had a claw machine with plush toys in nearly every grocery store, it was generally a well-known fact that it's a game of chance much more than it is a game of skill. When it didn't want you to win, it just didn't grip as hard as would be necessary to hold the toy. It would either not grab it at all, or it would but then would drop it due to an abrupt stop when it hits the top while lifting the claw.

The one or two times I tried one of those machines, the claw literally just re-opened on the way up no matter what I did. I pretty quickly figured they were rigged to only 'pay out' a certain percentage of plays in order to guarantee they stayed profitable.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#170

Post by bgarbiak »

psyc wrote: post #167
TeMPOraL wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> machines that nobody expects to be fair I for sure did. In fact, on my long list of "someday/maybe" projects, there was this one entry sitting for some 15 years now: build a little machine for the claw crane game, that would time a button press perfectly. I just saw the video where Mark Rober does this to another arcade game[0], so I won't bother anymore - I can already guess the outcome. I also don't know anyone e…

Is random claw machines a recent scam? About 30 years ago, my siblings and I went through a claw machine mania phase. We sampled every machine in a 30 mile radius, and found that the ones that slipped, always slipped. And the ones that gripped, gripped pretty frequently. Once we figured out which claws would actually grab, we won constantly. We collected around 50 stuffed animals over the course of a year. Or maybe w…

I’d assume so. Back in primary school I got a friend who was pretty much perfect at claw machines (and at Tekken). Later I’ve noticed they made it more difficult (shorter timelimit, limited number of moves, etc.), but never expected they would turn this into a vulgar scam.
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