The vital art of talking to strangers • Hacker News Board

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#191

Post by siquick » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

socialist_coder wrote: post #170

munificent wrote: post #15

I have a hypothesis that almost all of the US's current cultural problems would be solved if once a month we all cooked and shared a meal with another randomly chosen family.

You're spot on. Anything that increases your exposure to strangers and builds trust will be a boon to society. This is also the case with social clubs and sports leagues. Membership of these things has been in decline for decades and is now at an all-time low. Being in a bowling league or the rotary club with random members of your community did a ton to increase basic trust in society. Which in turn, makes everythin…

> This is why consuming video content, specifically streaming services with all-you-can-stream crap is so damaging. People no longer have time for shared dinners, clubs, or adult sports leagues because they'd rather binge watch a new series every week.

In my experience it’s not that people would rather watch videos than see their friends or do their hobbies, it’s that they’re working jobs which consume their lives to the point that watching Netflix is pretty much all they have the energy for. And before you know it, you don’t have any hobbies anymore so you watch more Netflix and the circle continues.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#192

Post by evilduck » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

shkkmo wrote: post #156

iammisc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but if everyone attended church, as it used to be in this country, then by definition, essentially all political stripes of any import would be represented in them, and people would have to confront people who disagree with them physically.

You realize that political battles between catholics, protestants, puritans, etc have historically been far more partisan and violent than what we see happening today. Church attendance is absolutely not a panacea for social cohesion with a country.

The United States was basically created because of religious splits in Europe and an unwillingness to agree. Constitutional freedom of religion, something baked into the founding tenants of the country, exists solely because religious people clearly can't get along.

To see a Catholic espouse church and faith as a social solution in the US is some next level irony.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#193

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:27 PM UTC

siquick wrote: post #191

socialist_coder wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're spot on. Anything that increases your exposure to strangers and builds trust will be a boon to society. This is also the case with social clubs and sports leagues. Membership of these things has been in decline for decades and is now at an all-time low. Being in a bowling league or the rotary club with random members of your community did a ton to increase basic trust in society. Which in turn, makes everythin…

> This is why consuming video content, specifically streaming services with all-you-can-stream crap is so damaging. People no longer have time for shared dinners, clubs, or adult sports leagues because they'd rather binge watch a new series every week. In my experience it’s not that people would rather watch videos than see their friends or do their hobbies, it’s that they’re working jobs which consume their lives to…

...and it gets increasingly hard to coordinate with your friends because they're also all watching Netflix and can't be bothered to make time.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#194

Post by edmundsauto » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:27 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #182

edmundsauto wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but the context here is in people attending their local church. Your point is like saying that America is so diverse - it is, but how much do the different ethnicities actually interact?

Catholic churches are the most integrated denomination. And Catholics are the group most likely to intermarry between ethnicities. Speaking of my own family, my brother and I are both married to women of different ethnicities (and differing ethnicities at that). Sources: [1] https://www.jbhe.com/2018/07/americas-churches-are-becoming-... [2] http://blogs.thearda.com/trend/featured/the-ties-that-may-no... > The only e…

The takeaway from those articles seems to be that even the most integrated churches are still trailing average neighborhood integration numbers (which are broadly considered problematic). There has been progress, but there is still a ways to go:

> Despite progress in church integration, congregations remain far more segregated than the society in general. Dr. Dougherty, an associate professor of sociology at Baylor University, states that “congregations are looking more like their neighborhoods racially and ethnically, but they still lag behind. The average congregation was eight times less diverse racially than its neighborhood in 1998 and four times less diverse in 2012.”

The context here is whether churches are a good way for people of diverse backgrounds to engage and interact. I contend that they have unnecessary elements that make them worse than a non-religious community event (supernatural beliefs, explicit conformity of dress and thought, protecting predators, etc.)

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#195

Post by JohnFen » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

beezischillin wrote: post #145

I grew up as a very lonely child so I struggle a lot with talking to strangers, usually the idea way more than the practice. Knowing that I’ll have to call a stranger on the phone or go to a social event full of unknown people stresses me out to the point of often thinking of many ways of how I’d like to get out of them. In social situations I struggle to let go and have to put enormous amounts of energy to act ‘norm…

I'm fundamentally introverted, but one day I realized something that made it much easier to talk with strangers: they're strangers! So what they think about me is (usually) of no actual importance. If I make a fool of myself, no harm done!

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#196

Post by munificent » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #179

nicoburns wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's religion not politics that makes church-attendance undesirable for most non-church-goers. Having said that, I agree that we are missing something that modern secular society is missing something that used to take place in churches. I'm not so convinced as you that the religious aspect is required to make it work. Shared purpose maybe, but there are lots of ways of creating that. In another comment you mentioned…

I doubt I'd participate in a secular community center, so I'd be interested in seeing this as an outside observer. But honestly, I doubt it'd work. Without any common values, it'll be hard to get a diverse set of people. In my experience, when secular people start this, it ends up being a club for other secular people 'like them'. In America the starkest examples of this are when these community clubs founded by whit…

> Without any common values, it'll be hard to get a diverse set of people.

The fundamental premise of the United States is that a body of people can have shared values without shared religion.

A supernatural deity is not required to believe that all people are created equal and deserve the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#197

Post by JSavageOne » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

HeckFeck wrote: post #187

JSavageOne wrote: post #162

One's life completely opens up when one realizes that it's possible to talk to strangers and meet friends / romantic partners anywhere, anytime, in any situation. Sure most interactions may not amount to much other than sharing a moment, but every now and then you make a friend or even romantic partner that makes it all worth it and then some. Walking outside goes from being what may have been a mere mundane chore, t…

If I may share a personal anecdote, I went through a lot before I even had the courage to do this. Then one of those chance encounters with strangers led to a great friendship. So I'm commenting to verify your story. Though I need to do it more, it is very difficult to break this old habit which I believe was developed as a necessary survival strategy in my young days. The cynic inside me believes that I was broken i…

I don't know the details of your experience, but one thing I'll say is that we tend to take less crap from other people when we've got alternatives. One should never tolerate disrespect from anyone whatsoever, but it's a hell of a lot easier when you've got other friends who treat you well, or at least you know that you can meet such people as opposed to having (extreme analogy here) some "forever alone" scarcity-like mindset.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#198

Post by JohnFen » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:33 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #64

mc32 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This already assumes people are good and get along and are high trust. What if I’m in a crew am a nice talker and get to scope things out for my crew as we chit chat? It’s the same thing that did in the lonely hearts clubs. Swindlers came in to the rescue and take advantage of a lonely set of people. In this case people who are open and inviting and trusting of random strangers.

> This already assumes people are good and get along and are high trust. It does assume most people are good, but that is something I believe deeply in my bones. (A simple logical argument is this: if people were on average harmful, we would all choose to be hermits. Since we don't, it implies that in aggregate our human interactions are a net benefit to us personally.) It does assumes that people can choose whether…

> It does assume most people are good, but that is something I believe deeply in my bones.

I do too (although I'd say "fundamentally decent" rather than "good", because "good" is a spectrum. Nobody is 100% bad or 100% good.)

I'm reminded of something I taught my children: most people are good, only a small percentage aren't. The trouble is that you can't tell which is which by looking -- so be both cautious and open with people.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#199

Post by iammisc » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #196

iammisc wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt I'd participate in a secular community center, so I'd be interested in seeing this as an outside observer. But honestly, I doubt it'd work. Without any common values, it'll be hard to get a diverse set of people. In my experience, when secular people start this, it ends up being a club for other secular people 'like them'. In America the starkest examples of this are when these community clubs founded by whit…

> Without any common values, it'll be hard to get a diverse set of people. The fundamental premise of the United States is that a body of people can have shared values without shared religion. A supernatural deity is not required to believe that all people are created equal and deserve the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

There's a big difference between living in the same country as people I don't share deep values with and actively seeking out their company.

I sincerely doubt most hn readers are seeking active companionship with someone from rural Alabama.

Of course I have shared values with almost every american. That small set of values is just not enough for deep friendship even if it's enough for civic patriotism.

Re: The vital art of talking to strangers

#200

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

bittercynic wrote: post #20

renewiltord wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha this is totally just social anxiety. Both ends actually. The belief that the girl next to you on the train is thinking you’re cute and ignoring her and the belief that she’s gonna react like that. A real version of that comic would probably have her thought bubble be like “I hope the meeting at five doesn’t run over. I’ve got to go pick up that camera lens from Best Buy. And what’s traffic going to be like. Shou…

I've noticed the same pattern - people are usually very polite if you address them - and it makes me more reluctant to strike up a conversation with nearby strangers. If they really don't want to interact with me they might not give me a clear signal, and I might be causing extended discomfort for someone even though they are acting like they want to continue the interaction. I'm trying to get smarter about reading s…

> Are there classes or something available for people who know they're lacking in social skills and want to get better?

I've looked for something like this before, and haven't really found a good option. The main things people tend to bring up are:

1) Toastmasters. This is is adult-oriented and widely available, but is largely for people who want to improve at public speaking and "leadership".

2) Social skills training. In principle this is exactly the thing you're looking for, but the field is heavily focused on working with children and adolescents; genuine resources for adults (as opposed to self-help / content marketing fluff) seem scarce.