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Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

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Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#61

Post by elliekelly »

ZeroCool2u wrote: post #59
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that at least Chase, Blackrock, and Visa are rapidly raising their pay for new engineering / analyst hires. Is this not true?

I know for a fact that base pay for a first year SWE with a BS+MS in CS at Goldman just broke $100k a couple years ago. That probably sounds like a lot to most people, but if you're hiring staff to live and work in NYC, especially when there's an absolutely massive Google campus 10 minutes North of the GS HQ, that's pretty much table stakes. Never mind the glaring cultural differences.

Does that take bonuses into account? Goldman (and others in the industry) tend to have lower base pay with a much higher bonus. It's typical for low level employees to get a year-end bonus equal to about 50-60% of their salary. As they advance to mid-level their bonus will equal their salary and, if they're in a senior position, it will greatly exceed their salary.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#62

Post by nobodyandproud »

ZeroCool2u wrote: post #59
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that at least Chase, Blackrock, and Visa are rapidly raising their pay for new engineering / analyst hires. Is this not true?

I know for a fact that base pay for a first year SWE with a BS+MS in CS at Goldman just broke $100k a couple years ago. That probably sounds like a lot to most people, but if you're hiring staff to live and work in NYC, especially when there's an absolutely massive Google campus 10 minutes North of the GS HQ, that's pretty much table stakes. Never mind the glaring cultural differences.

Goldman’s payday is through bonuses, not the base salary.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#63

Post by game_the0ry »

elliekelly wrote: post #61
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know for a fact that base pay for a first year SWE with a BS+MS in CS at Goldman just broke $100k a couple years ago. That probably sounds like a lot to most people, but if you're hiring staff to live and work in NYC, especially when there's an absolutely massive Google campus 10 minutes North of the GS HQ, that's pretty much table stakes. Never mind the glaring cultural differences.

Does that take bonuses into account? Goldman (and others in the industry) tend to have lower base pay with a much higher bonus. It's typical for low level employees to get a year-end bonus equal to about 50-60% of their salary. As they advance to mid-level their bonus will equal their salary and, if they're in a senior position, it will greatly exceed their salary.

Bonuses are not that high at Goldman and their comp still does not compare to FAANG, it never will.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#64

Post by game_the0ry »

ZeroCool2u wrote: post #58
game_the0ry wrote: post #50

I worked in a brand-name bank, so I am familiar with the goings in the tech side of finance. Call me crazy, but I would trust aws, microsoft, and google with my PII and finances before I would trust Wells, BofA, JPMC, Goldman, et al. The cloud giants pay their engineers more and technologists are second-class citizens at the financial institutions - infer what you want from that.

Definitely agree. In my experience, the financial industry tends to lean heavily on checklists and bureaucracy to enforce security. This requires additional headcount and prevents automation. Technology companies lean the other way and enforce security through comprehensive automation of the controls they must follow.

Yes, agreed. The choking bureaucracy has the unintended consequence of lowering risk - if its very time consuming to build thing, you build less things that break over time, and rely on old things that have worked for a long time.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#65

Post by elliekelly »

LinuxBender wrote: post #37
pwarner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the problem of PII better solved on premises?

Just my observations, but some business entities run into legal challenges that vary greatly by industry. B2B customers have a contractual relationship with you, not your hosting provider. If your hosting provider has an "oops we leaked your data" they only breached the contract with their vendor, not themselves. The contract can specify how data is managed. Adding to this, some companies/banks legal controls are com…

I'm a banking attorney and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Vendor management is popular with regulators, particularly with respect to info sec and data privacy, and the navigating the contractual responsibilities can quickly become burdensome.

Getting the lawyers on both sides to agree to language for the ongoing certification(s) that will also satisfy the internal auditors, the outside auditors, the regulators... suddenly something that sounded simple when the contract was signed takes several meetings and a lot of back and forth.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#66

Post by nobodyandproud »

This is a good conversation to have. There are no meaningful guarantees that cloud providers won’t scrape data or ideas.

Then there’s the cost: Cloud is extremely expensive over the long run; more-so than the equivalent on-prem.

The long term solution here is to add better Internet in all regions, similar to our highway system today.

Then any company of a large enough size can build out their own DCs on the cheap.

It would also inject much needed dollars into the non-coastal areas.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#67

Post by Tostino »

game_the0ry wrote: post #63
elliekelly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that take bonuses into account? Goldman (and others in the industry) tend to have lower base pay with a much higher bonus. It's typical for low level employees to get a year-end bonus equal to about 50-60% of their salary. As they advance to mid-level their bonus will equal their salary and, if they're in a senior position, it will greatly exceed their salary.

Bonuses are not that high at Goldman and their comp still does not compare to FAANG, it never will.

Keep in mind it easily could at the stroke of a pen though. It's entirely their choice to not compensate competitively.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#68

Post by tsycho »

elliekelly wrote: post #61
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know for a fact that base pay for a first year SWE with a BS+MS in CS at Goldman just broke $100k a couple years ago. That probably sounds like a lot to most people, but if you're hiring staff to live and work in NYC, especially when there's an absolutely massive Google campus 10 minutes North of the GS HQ, that's pretty much table stakes. Never mind the glaring cultural differences.

Does that take bonuses into account? Goldman (and others in the industry) tend to have lower base pay with a much higher bonus. It's typical for low level employees to get a year-end bonus equal to about 50-60% of their salary. As they advance to mid-level their bonus will equal their salary and, if they're in a senior position, it will greatly exceed their salary.

"Back office" (which includes most programmers, with the exception of algo traders) bonuses are much much lower than "front office" (traders, ibankers, sales) bonuses.

Google/FB devs total comp (including RSUs) will easily beat Goldman devs by 150-200%, depending upon your performance.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#69

Post by ZeroCool2u »

elliekelly wrote: post #61
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know for a fact that base pay for a first year SWE with a BS+MS in CS at Goldman just broke $100k a couple years ago. That probably sounds like a lot to most people, but if you're hiring staff to live and work in NYC, especially when there's an absolutely massive Google campus 10 minutes North of the GS HQ, that's pretty much table stakes. Never mind the glaring cultural differences.

Does that take bonuses into account? Goldman (and others in the industry) tend to have lower base pay with a much higher bonus. It's typical for low level employees to get a year-end bonus equal to about 50-60% of their salary. As they advance to mid-level their bonus will equal their salary and, if they're in a senior position, it will greatly exceed their salary.

This is strictly base pay, but the bonuses are simply not that good for the average SWE at the banks, because as others have said, technologists are seen as a supporting role. There are exceptions, but a much more senior coworker of mine that worked at a number of HF's and banks once told me a good rule of thumb is that the further away you are from executing a trade, the lower your comp. Of course, management doesn't really follow that rule.

This is all with worse work/life balance, low flexibility, (GS was the first big bank to recall everyone and enforce working on site I believe.), a 'conservative' tech stack if you're lucky or a simply unpleasant one if you're not, and generally not being valued the same way as you would be at a FAANG or typical tech company.

Re: Bank of England to crack down on 'secretive' cloud computing services

#70

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

elliekelly wrote: post #61
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know for a fact that base pay for a first year SWE with a BS+MS in CS at Goldman just broke $100k a couple years ago. That probably sounds like a lot to most people, but if you're hiring staff to live and work in NYC, especially when there's an absolutely massive Google campus 10 minutes North of the GS HQ, that's pretty much table stakes. Never mind the glaring cultural differences.

Does that take bonuses into account? Goldman (and others in the industry) tend to have lower base pay with a much higher bonus. It's typical for low level employees to get a year-end bonus equal to about 50-60% of their salary. As they advance to mid-level their bonus will equal their salary and, if they're in a senior position, it will greatly exceed their salary.

Do banks not offer engineers RSUs?

If so, $100k plus a 15% bonus is laughably low. Even shitty startups pay new grads more than that.

My understanding is that GS's interview is actually harder to pass than a lot of FAANG companies. So you have to wonder why anyone would even interview there if the pay is that low...

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