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Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#161

Post by rendall »

slightwinder wrote: post #151
laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

> Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? For what? A criminal is claiming his innocence, classical story, people do that all the time. Without further proof, why should anyone bother people who are probably innocent, and more important: powerful. That could seriously harm your career if you do something to lightly. Who would do that in this situation? The other problem is the pretty strict chain of respon…

> why should anyone bother people who are probably innocent, and more important: powerful

Oh you sweet summer child. Why, indeed? Why would anyone bother an innocent, powerful person?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#162

Post by rendall »

sunstone wrote: post #144
laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

The thing I can't believe is that Japan's trading partners like USA, Canada, UK, Europe etc. haven't said boo about this outrageous miscarriage of justice in which the Japanese government has been complicit. As for as I know not one government has spoken out publicly.

You cannot assume the fellow is innocent. A government, particularly an ally, cannot be reckless with accusations.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#163

Post by petre »

laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

Japan has >99% conviction rate if you get arrested. That's precisely why you would run if you're innocent. Although it's more complicated.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/carlos-ghosn-and-japans-99-c...

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#164

Post by csomar »

I think most people missed the most important part of the story

> The large box carrying Ghosn was never x-rayed or checked by customs officials, because it was too big to fit inside the x-ray machine

The security theater we have to go through in the airport is just that: a pathetic security theater. You have a large box, that's definitively something that you gotta check. If you can't x-ray it, then at least open it?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#165

Post by aunty_helen »

sn41 wrote: post #159
djrogers wrote: post #138

>For more than a year, Mr Ghosn spent long periods in custody or was held under house arrest in Tokyo after being bailed. It was not clear when a trial would take place - the fear was it could take years - and Mr Ghosn faced a further 15 years in prison if convicted, in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. >It was during a period of house arrest, when Mr Ghosn was told he would not be allowed to have any cont…

99.4 percent conviction rate? That sounds very suspicious to me. Btw, strange that Japan is called as 'Western' - perhaps the better term is OECD? Same goes for NZ, I guess.

???? NZ is a first world British colony, same as USA, Canada and the closest neighbour, geographically and culturally, Australia.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#166

Post by jbay808 »

petre wrote: post #163
laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

Japan has >99% conviction rate if you get arrested. That's precisely why you would run if you're innocent. Although it's more complicated. https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/carlos-ghosn-and-japans-99-c...

That's an often-quoted statistic that really doesn't mean what it looks like. The main reason their conviction rate is so high is not that they have some bloodthirsty kangaroo court, but rather that charges are very likely to be dropped by the prosecution if there isn't compelling evidence certain to end in conviction, rather than the prosecution risking losing the case.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#167

Post by rendall »

bzbarsky wrote: post #150
CalChris wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martha Stewart went to prison for insider trading to avoid a loss of $45,673. She was worth in the hundreds of millions at the time.

Martha Stewart went to prison for lying to federal investigators and obstruction of justice, not for insider trading. The "insider trading" (not actually a crime; the actual criminal thing in such cases tends to be "securities fraud") charges were variously dropped or dismissed by the court, depending on the charge. So she was actually innocent (in the legal system sense, at least) of the crime she was initially accu…

> Martha Stewart went to prison for lying to federal investigators

Kids, if the FBI comes a-knocking, shut. Your. Fat. Fucking. Mouth.

Ask for a lawyer and the shut the fuck up. It doesn't matter if you're innocent.

If you talk to the Feds and make a mistake, you can be charged with a felony for lying to to federal agents. Did you talk to that guy on Saturday, May 20th, 2017? Who knows? The Feds do, and if you don't remember precise details, you got yourself a felony charge. Felony. Even if you are innocent of anything else, you lied to a Federal investigator.

Shut up. Ask for a lawyer. And shut up.

(I'm OK with the downvotes, if this helps someone remember to shut up and get a lawyer)

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#168

Post by AtlasBarfed »

tmh88j wrote: post #71
economusty wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competing with Porsche? Can you expound on that?

The R35 GT-R took down everything from Ferraris to Porsches and Lamborghinis when it first came out, both in straight line speed and handling on the track. Results at 3m10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDP7Pty8Qnw&t=130s Probably a bit of acting, but Jeremy Clarkson had to be carted off the track while driving one because he injured his neck on a particularly tight corner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXFSVoVqh…

And ten years later a 130 grand car (would that be the cheapest in the field back in 2010? Was the corvette or lotus the cheapest in that clip?) would eviscerate them by... two seconds?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#169

Post by rramadass »

rjzzleep wrote: post #145
laurieg wrote: post #49

The most curious thing: Why were none of the Japanese executives arrested? Not even briefly for questioning? Ghosn was held for hundreds of days, Kelly is currently undergoing trial. It seems to me that this was a corporate coup with assistance from the prosecutors office. The plan was Ghosn would be arrested, admit guilt straightaway, possibly under some questionable interrogation[1] and then get a fine/suspended se…

They don't because in Japan they're not as worried about their own citizen leaving the country. When you get caught stealing something in Japan they will take you into custody for over 20 days, no bail, no nothing. I believe it's 10 days and then 1 or 2 extensions(but I don't remember the details). This only applies to foreigners. Basically the idea is that the only real punishment they can give you is whatever they…

Here is a short interview with a Japanese lawyer on how the law screws over foreigners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1ZLGqL1FMo

After watching this, i could understand why Carlos Ghosn did what he did; it is an abhorrent "Hostage Justice" system.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#170

Post by throw_away »

jbay808 wrote: post #166
petre wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has >99% conviction rate if you get arrested. That's precisely why you would run if you're innocent. Although it's more complicated. https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/carlos-ghosn-and-japans-99-c...

That's an often-quoted statistic that really doesn't mean what it looks like. The main reason their conviction rate is so high is not that they have some bloodthirsty kangaroo court, but rather that charges are very likely to be dropped by the prosecution if there isn't compelling evidence certain to end in conviction, rather than the prosecution risking losing the case.

This very article says the same, if read past the headline:

> Japan’s often-cited conviction rate of over 99 percent is a percentage of all prosecuted cases, not just contested cases. It is eye-catching, but misleading, since it counts as convictions those cases in which defendants pleaded guilty. If the U.S. conviction rate were calculated in a similar manner it would also exceed 99 percent since so few cases are contested at trial (in FY 2018 only 320 of the total number of 79,704 federal defendants were acquitted at trial).

I was curious why I kept seeing this article coming up as an attack on Japan when the text clearly doesn't come across that way & yep, this link is the first google result for "japan 99% conviction rate"

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