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Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#71

Post by tmh88j »

economusty wrote: post #66
oscb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this! Ghosn saved Nissan by focusing on optimizing and reducing costs and while that must've helped a lot in the short/medium term it came at a cost in the long term. It's as if Nissan had gotten stuck in the last decade of tech for cars. They went from competing with Porsche and having popular electric cars to basically being an afterthought in the market.

Competing with Porsche? Can you expound on that?

The R35 GT-R took down everything from Ferraris to Porsches and Lamborghinis when it first came out, both in straight line speed and handling on the track.

Results at 3m10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDP7Pty8Qnw&t=130s

Probably a bit of acting, but Jeremy Clarkson had to be carted off the track while driving one because he injured his neck on a particularly tight corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXFSVoVqhYw

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#72

Post by ajcp »

lkramer wrote: post #13

The whole story is a bit hard to untangle, but I wouldn't be surprised if both that he literally saved Nissan and funneled money off to personal projects is true. He strikes me as the type of executive who believe he can do what he wants as long as he shows result. It was rumoured that the house he lives in in Beirut actually belongs to Nissan and they've been trying to get him kicked out, but with little success.

It belongs to Nissan in that Nissan alleges Ghosn bought the place with money he stole from them.

I used to live just down the street from the place. Lovely neighborhood.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#73

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

google234123 wrote: post #26

Too bad for all the people that helped him escape who are being jailed now.

I really don't understand that part to be honest, from the point of view of the two Americans. Given their part in the escape you'd think they'd be aware of Japan's terrifying justice system and of the situation with the extradition treaties. Why would you help someone escape all that if you have to go back to a country with an extradition treaty with Japan.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#74

Post by porknubbins »

new299 wrote: post #40
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #34

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have th…

What disappoints me is that people make these claims without taking a few seconds to Google… Academic work I’ve seen suggests it’s basically down to case selection: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/468111 But what also fascinates me is that people can so easily come up with strong opinions about a culture based on limited information I.e saying “a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably”… It’s…

Most popular ideas about what Japan is like by people who have never been there are probably wrong, but also Japan is massively from the US in all sorts of interesting ways that are worth talking about.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#75

Post by emptyparadise »

yborg wrote: post #15
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #11

>Until then, he remains a once-big-fish in a small pond, living in exile and under armed guard in Beirut for the foreseeable future. How secure is he in Beruit? If Japan really wanted him badly, I would guess he would be pretty easy for Israeli Mossad to pick up.

Lebanon is an economic disaster area right now, so while this won't directly affect the fabulously wealthy Ghosn, he's ironically sort of imprisoned in a failing state.

I'd take that over being in a prison cell.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#76

Post by supernova87a »

Well, here is what I'm curious about. Which of these conditions is valid justification for violating house arrest and fleeing a jurisdiction that you are being prosecuted in?

-- You believe the charges or prosecution is being unfairly conducted

-- You believe you are innocent

-- You believe public opinion is on your side

-- You have a more favorable jurisdiction you can flee to

Is it up to you to decide that you're in the right, and if you have resources, should escape the legal system?

I'm sure many people feel these points when they're being prosecuted. Are they to decide? Or is it just that he's rich and had the means to act on these opinions?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#77

Post by bogomipz »

laurieg wrote: post #45
bogomipz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Japan's conviction rate is above 99%." Although this figure is is regularly sited in the context of Ghosn's decision to flee the country this statistic is misleading since in Japan this figure counts cases where the defendant pleads guilty. So this 99% figure applies to all prosecuted cases not just contested cases. If the US were to use the same calculation the conviction rate would be about the same. I believe it…

The 99% conviction rate number that is mentioned can be misleading. This article[1] details how prosecutors drop cases and only bring 'airtight' cases before a judge. However, Carlos Ghosn's case was not simple some street crime uncovered by local cops, it was investigated by the special investigation section of the Tokyo prosecutors office. Cases brought by them are far less likely to be dropped. The defendant more…

Thanks for the link. It is a very curious situation where a judge would fear a prosecutor. That does suggest a power imbalance. I feel your link also supports the point I was making though and the main difference between Japan and the US is that US makes heavy uses of plea bargains vs Japan's tendency to only ever bring cases they feel have a high probability of a successful conviction.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#78

Post by agumonkey »

tomcam wrote: post #67
lkramer wrote: post #13

The whole story is a bit hard to untangle, but I wouldn't be surprised if both that he literally saved Nissan and funneled money off to personal projects is true. He strikes me as the type of executive who believe he can do what he wants as long as he shows result. It was rumoured that the house he lives in in Beirut actually belongs to Nissan and they've been trying to get him kicked out, but with little success.

I don’t know much about cars, but I understood Renault’s quality reputation enough to understand the acquisition was a disaster from the get-go. So I’m not sure I can agree with your premises.

While trying to understand how Renault managed to acquire so much of Nissan I was reminded that Nissan was nearly bankrupt in 1999, there's even a springer document about this period https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#79

Post by shusaku »

crooked-v wrote: post #37
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #34

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have th…

On this note, the Ace Attorney series is one long parody of the Japanese criminal law system, which is why it's such a running theme that every defendant is automatically guilty until you incontrovertibly prove them otherwise and why the defense attorneys get treated like dirt throughout.

Yeah that just sounds like something you made up. I suppose Perry Mason is a parody of the American legal system too?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#80

Post by lmm »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

> He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail It’s also not ridiculous? She isn’t his lawyer. He’s accused of a multibillion dollar fraud. And he was clearly a flight risk, one she personally amplified.

How would being able to meet his wife have amplified his flight risk? Indeed he said the prospect of another year being kept apart from her (while still not getting a trial or even being charged) was his reason for absconding.
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