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Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#61

Post by miles »

new299 wrote: post #43
Simulacra wrote: post #17

The more I learned about the Japanese judicial system, the more I found myself cheering for this guy. The system seemed like it was designed as a can't-lose process for the prosecutors, and if arrested, you're guilty until proven innocent. I'm more sad that the guys who helped him are in hot water.

I’d be interested in sources on this…

Not OP, but happy to oblige:

Japan’s notoriously ruthless criminal justice system is getting a face lift https://qz.com/693437/japans-notoriously-ruthless-criminal-j...

A legal review of why Japan high conviction rate is bad https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/legal-review-why-japan-high-c...

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#62

Post by laurieg »

namelessoracle wrote: post #10
sleepytimetea wrote: post #4

So, the justice system in Japan enforces additional restrictions after a person is out on bail ? He couldn't meet his wife seems like an unreasonable condition for someone out on bail. Also, is the justice system in Japan so backed up that he would have to wait years for it go to trial ?

If you ever thought the American justice system is bad, look into the Japanese one. The whole system is designed to make you confess and apologize. They will literally lie to you and tell you it will all go away if you sign the confession paperwork. You dont get a lawyer while they do this, and they get to keep you for quite a bit of time before you get a lawyer. They also dont do trial by jury, but inquisitorial jud…

Even if you have the mental strength to resist interrogation and not make a false confession, it might be in your interest to confess to speed things up.

If you no-showed at work for 3 weeks, would you lose your job? But if you confess, you could be out today.

Here is an account of being arrested and detained in Japan[1]. It's worth a read, especially given the ending.

[1] https://nymag.com/vindicated/2016/11/truth-lies-and-videotap...

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#63

Post by haecceity »

ohhelloxoxo wrote: post #32
namelessoracle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever thought the American justice system is bad, look into the Japanese one. The whole system is designed to make you confess and apologize. They will literally lie to you and tell you it will all go away if you sign the confession paperwork. You dont get a lawyer while they do this, and they get to keep you for quite a bit of time before you get a lawyer. They also dont do trial by jury, but inquisitorial jud…

Not trying to handwave away issues with the Japanese system, but scale seems relevant here. Japan: 40 incarcerated per 100k population [1] USA: 655 incarcerated per 100k population [2] [1] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/japan [2] https://www.prisonstudies.org/country/united-states-america

That makes sense the market is more competitive in USA so they provide better service to the customers.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#64

Post by bogomipz »

MegaButts wrote: post #46
bogomipz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Japan's conviction rate is above 99%." Although this figure is is regularly sited in the context of Ghosn's decision to flee the country this statistic is misleading since in Japan this figure counts cases where the defendant pleads guilty. So this 99% figure applies to all prosecuted cases not just contested cases. If the US were to use the same calculation the conviction rate would be about the same. I believe it…

How do you plead guilty and not get convicted? I'm not arguing - I genuinely don't understand.

Pleading guilty means you yourself admit your guilt(often in exchange for some concession such as a reduced crime or reduced sentence.) This in contrast to a judge or jury finding you guilty. The latter is considered a "contested" case. Contested cases are what the US uses for the convictions rate percentage. The vast majority of federal criminal cases in the US are not contested and do not go to trial, despite what TV courtroom drama would have you believe. If you plead guilty, a conviction will still be entered I was just pointing out the procedural differences and how they are counted.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#65

Post by PHGamer »

honestly i dopnt think ghosn is really the big issue anyways. as stated in the article this is more about renault than ghosn. he was just collateral, probably because he didnt wanna pick sides . probably wouldn't have been arrested if he stepped down but if you ran 2 different companies in 2 different places would you.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#66

Post by economusty »

oscb wrote: post #54
tmh88j wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to my auto mechanic friends Nissan once ranked up there with Toyota and Honda for reliability, but their quality plummeted after the Renault deal. Nissan went to crap when they took a controlling stake in JATCO and started using those god awful CVT's in everything, and then stopped putting any effort into their sports cars to keep them competitive enough to lure enthusiasts to their brand. I owned a GT-R…

Exactly this! Ghosn saved Nissan by focusing on optimizing and reducing costs and while that must've helped a lot in the short/medium term it came at a cost in the long term. It's as if Nissan had gotten stuck in the last decade of tech for cars. They went from competing with Porsche and having popular electric cars to basically being an afterthought in the market.

Competing with Porsche? Can you expound on that?

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#67

Post by tomcam »

lkramer wrote: post #13

The whole story is a bit hard to untangle, but I wouldn't be surprised if both that he literally saved Nissan and funneled money off to personal projects is true. He strikes me as the type of executive who believe he can do what he wants as long as he shows result. It was rumoured that the house he lives in in Beirut actually belongs to Nissan and they've been trying to get him kicked out, but with little success.

I don’t know much about cars, but I understood Renault’s quality reputation enough to understand the acquisition was a disaster from the get-go. So I’m not sure I can agree with your premises.

Re: Carlos Ghosn: How I escaped Japan

#68

Post by haecceity »

new299 wrote: post #40
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #34

> in a country which has a 99.4% conviction rate. Brutal. Either they're really good at building the necessary evidence or they're just ruthless when it comes to criminal justice. Based on the other comments in this thread, it seems the latter. It's interesting to me how a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably when it comes to human rights. This applies to their work ethics as well. They have th…

What disappoints me is that people make these claims without taking a few seconds to Google… Academic work I’ve seen suggests it’s basically down to case selection: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/468111 But what also fascinates me is that people can so easily come up with strong opinions about a culture based on limited information I.e saying “a society that prides itself on honor can act so dishonorably”… It’s…

We watch anime so we know what we're talking about.
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