Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs • Hacker News Board

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#161

Post by VladRussian » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:46 PM UTC

dgreensp wrote: post #136

What Aaron did sounds seriously sketchy (sneaking into MIT wiring closets, trying to download the entire database, etc.), a fact that Demand Progress and several commenters here seem to be ignoring. Defending his actions would require a very strong, multi-pronged version of the argument "if it's physically / technologically possible, it must be ok." Can MIT legally limit guest access to its network? Can JSTOR limit a…

>What Aaron did sounds seriously sketchy (sneaking into MIT wiring closets, trying to download the entire database, etc.),

reminded me about ancient IP infringement case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#162

Post by stephth » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:50 PM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #158

stephth wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very hypocritical. If their "Mission and Work" is to support scholarly work and academic usage, and encourage usage of large sets of data, why are they suing Aaron's ass instead of working with him to further understand what were his needs that their system was lacking and how they could reduce that gap? Why else would Aaron hack their system if not for research? Sounds like instead of spending money in i…

They aren't suing him... this is a criminal case: The criminal investigation and today’s indictment of Mr. Swartz has been directed by the United States Attorney’s Office

You're right, thanks. Replace suing by charging and strike make them a little richer and. The rest of the point still stands.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#163

Post by white_devil » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:52 PM UTC

There must be a reason why the US government wants to harass/bully/imprison Aaron.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#164

Post by woodall » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:53 PM UTC

Posted in another thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2782752

This is not the first time he has done something like this if memory serves me. In late 2008 Mr. Swartz and Carl Malamud went to select libraries, ones with free PACER access, and proceeded to download ~700 GB of information that was behind a paywall. After which they made all of it available on Mr. Malamud's website.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/04/case-against...

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#165

Post by fleitz » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:54 PM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #43

runningdogx wrote: post #34

This is the most technically competent charging document I've ever read. I guess there must have been some hackers on the grand jury. Paragraph 35 & 36: which "protected computer" on MIT's network did he access? Certainly they're not trying to claim his laptop was a protected computer? Are they talking about the DHCP server or whatever registration frontend MIT has for the DHCP assignments? I have trouble with the co…

> no operative security barriers in place I don't know... Even if my front door was open, you still aren't allowed to enter my house without my permission.

A stranger would probably be allowed to enter the property unless you had posted No Trespassing signs. They'd be required to leave upon request but I'm not sure that simply entering your house via an open door would constitute a crime or tort. An open door could likely be construed as implied consent.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#166

Post by a3camero » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:57 PM UTC

jackpirate wrote: post #114

a3camero wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the indictment you'll see that they very much are not interested in free transmission of knowledge. They charge >$50k/yr for access: " For a large research university, this annual subscription fee for JSTOR’s various collections of content can cost more than $50,000."

That price actually seems pretty reasonable for a large research university. The real question is how much they charge individuals who want to get an article. My first google search ( http://www.jstor.org/pss/27757488 ) results in $12/article. This is very steep when you're trying to do research and don't even know if the article is what you're looking for.

How is that reasonable? Sounds like Mr. Swartz was willing to host them for free! And he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling police.

But seriously, $12/article is ludicrous. That must be way above cost recovery or they're not doing a very efficient job of running JSTOR. Perhaps the co-founder of Reddit would do a better job...

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#167

Post by neilk » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 7:57 PM UTC

dgreensp wrote: post #136

What Aaron did sounds seriously sketchy (sneaking into MIT wiring closets, trying to download the entire database, etc.), a fact that Demand Progress and several commenters here seem to be ignoring. Defending his actions would require a very strong, multi-pronged version of the argument "if it's physically / technologically possible, it must be ok." Can MIT legally limit guest access to its network? Can JSTOR limit a…

Right, because the standard penalty for trespass onto campus property is a federal indictment. Good thing no MIT student has ever snuck into a restricted area before.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#168

Post by niels_olson » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 8:01 PM UTC

Deutscher wrote: post #23

33. Swartz intended to distribute a significant portion of JSTOR’s archive of digitized journal articles through one or more file-sharing sites. How do they know this? Has he said something to that effect? --edited for formatting.

Um, I don't know, maybe because he wrote a manifesto to that effect and has circulated various methods for doing so? He was sponsoring a google group for article requests for awhile. Seems to be gone now.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#169

Post by xefer » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 8:05 PM UTC

snikolic wrote: post #113

Ignoring legality, Aaron's actions, case specifics, etc., I have to admit: I really wish that the data in question was free and publicly available.

Anybody with a library card to a major public library can get this stuff for free over the web.

Re: Aaronsw indicted for hacking MIT network to download millions of JSTOR docs

#170

Post by burgerbrain » Tue, Jul 19, 2011, 8:06 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #80

asciilifeform wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have stated my honest opinion. You are, however, free to believe that I was trolling. I can't stop you. I invite the moderators to delete my account, if they believe that I am a troll. As things are, I merely refuse to go along with the herd-think on this site.

You seem to have a lot of comments for someone who doesn't even have a TV Drama-level understanding of the criminal justice system. You know that even people accused of murder are often free during their trials, right?

For some of us, memory of how Mitnick was treated (or for a more modern example, Manning), still taints how we expect accused "hackers" to be treated by the criminal justice system.

Physical detainment of someone accused of such crimes is hardly unheard of.