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More on Vaccine Side Effects

blogs.sciencemag.org

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Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#41

Post by sofixa »

awoimbee wrote: post #12
sofixa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in. It's not mandatory, unless you consider restaurants and travel to be necessities one needs ( and you can still use a test in lieu of a vaccine certificate, and tests are still free)

I could maybe agree if the restrictions were put in the winter, but not in the summer. People have already booked their vacation, and now they need to do a PCR every 2 days to take a train, enjoy restaurants ? That's insane ! To get the "pass sanitaire" you need: first shot -> wait 3 weeks -> second shot -> wait 2 weeks. That's more than a month !

PCRs are valid for 72 hours and free. If I weren't vaccinated I'd prefer to get a swab in my nose every 2-3 days and do the stuff i want over nobody doing anything in public ( if the Delta variant is left unchecked, we're probably looking at new curfews or lockdowns) in the not so distant future.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#42

Post by tbabb »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #34
tbabb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're vaccinated, it's rare to get it. If you get it, it's likely to be mild or completely asymptomatic. Basically no one who's been vaccinated has died.

> Basically no one who's been vaccinated has died. It's better to be precise as the topic is quite sensitive[0]: > Unvaccinated 48-year-old man and vaccinated man in his 80s succumb as daily cases keep rising [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/coronavirus-deaths-reported-in...

More than 99% of people who die from COVID are unvaccinated.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#43

Post by desine »

>So as the CDC link shows, the choice is clear: mass vaccination does indeed have rare side effects, but mass infection with the coronavirus (which is the only other choice) is absolutely worse.

Not sure I agree that it's so easily quantifiable or justifiable. The loss of life due to the virus is tragic, but has been mostly the old and infirm. The vaccination side effects have been rare, but mostly affecting the young and healthy. They're also only a year out in a massive rollout of new biotechnology. New, not in terms of time, but in terms of scale - the mRNA concept has been in labs for 20 years, but it's only been in labs. It's reasonable to suspect that there may be other side effects that have not yet manifested.

I'm glad we have the vaccines available for those who need them, and those who want them to feel safer. But if feels hubristic to state with such certainty that mass roll-out, including to children, is guaranteed to be better.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#44

Post by [deleted] »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #36

I wish I could get skeptics to believe this kind of evidence. I've had deeply frustrating conversations that went along the lines o Them: The vaccines are more dangerous than the virus! Me: No they aren't. There's very few cases of severe side effects. Blood clots with AZ are about the worst we've seen, though GBS is always a small risk with vaccinations. Them: No, the vaccines are super dangerous. People have gotten…

[deleted]

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#45

Post by ryandrake »

djrogers wrote: post #6
phtrivier wrote: post #3

I would have noded and approved this article 24 hours ago. Now vaccination is about to be made de-facto mandatory in France (with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in.) ; and I know that I'm going to be a bit less receptive, because of the tension between "this is sane science" and "this is a terrible bet on the future from a politician that got a lot o…

> The cognitive dissonance is not particularly pleasant It's not unexpected though, is it? Certain personality types, and to a large extent certain cultures, reflexively push back when forced to do something, even if it's a Good Idea or something they'd do or have already done anyway. While that reflex may have downsides (like the current situation with vaccines), from a societal standpoint, it's a strong check again…

Pushing back on a good idea just because it's compulsory is not logical. It's like pushing back on seat belt laws. Seat belts are almost universally considered a good idea. They save lives of the wearer who doesn't want to turn into a hamburger during a crash, and protects the people around them who have one less projectile to worry about. There are almost no down-sides to seat belt use. Yet, I know people (even in my own family) who to this day refuse to wear them, simply because They Aren't Going To Let The Man Tell Them What To Do. It seems like just a childish and immature reason to not do something when the upside overwhelms the downside.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#46

Post by sofixa »

phtrivier wrote: post #8
sofixa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with a snarky timing that will prevent some people from getting all their shots before restrictions pop in. It's not mandatory, unless you consider restaurants and travel to be necessities one needs ( and you can still use a test in lieu of a vaccine certificate, and tests are still free)

The full extend of the restrictions is still to be announced / debated, but the first echo indicates that even going to the mall for grocery shopping, to the pharmarcy for medecines or to the hospital for doc appointment might be restricted. Tests should not be free anymore sometimes in automn. That's why I meant by "de facto". Plus, we're talking about "restaurants" and "bars" in France . That borders on "necessitie…

As you said, details are yet to be debated, but i highly doubt grocery shopping will be on the list of restricted activities.

For the rest, PCR tests for free until the autumn will give plenty of time for everyone to get their two doses. It's not that complicated nor time consuming to take one every few days, it just requires anticipation. ( And btw did they specifically say PCR? I don't recall.. Antigen tests are quicker and might be an easier way out )

The timing is very short indeed, bordering on the unfeasible. I think that they're right in the approach, and maybe if they had given more time people would have been more relaxed and said to themselves they'll go get vaccinated once they're back from vacation, which might be too late to avoid trouble and new curfews, closings, etc.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#47

Post by 121789 »

olah_1 wrote: post #22

I'm hearing a lot of people say that even if you get the vaccine, you can still get covid. Is that true?

yes, I got the vaccine and then COVID afterwards. Outside of losing taste and smell for ~3 days, it was completely asymptomatic though

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#48

Post by amackera »

anonymouswacker wrote: post #29
beiller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

Given that covid is entirely treatable in 99.9+% of cases (read the studies & physician anecdotes who have been treating it effectively since last March), it makes more sense to me to take the path of being proactive, healthy, and unvaccinated until it reaches Approved status. To each their own.

It seems like the mortality rate is far higher than 0.1% according to the actual data (not anecdotes): https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Obviously this data is only for confirmed cases, so there may be far more unreported cases in the wild, but your made up number of 99.9+% is still pretty clearly wrong.

Also, given that you can be have covid, and be asymptomatic, there's actually no way to know if you are healthy (unless you're getting tested regularly). If you're infected, but asymptomatic, you're spreading the virus and you're part of the problem.

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#49

Post by omegaworks »

desine wrote: post #43

>So as the CDC link shows, the choice is clear: mass vaccination does indeed have rare side effects, but mass infection with the coronavirus (which is the only other choice) is absolutely worse. Not sure I agree that it's so easily quantifiable or justifiable. The loss of life due to the virus is tragic, but has been mostly the old and infirm. The vaccination side effects have been rare, but mostly affecting the youn…

>The loss of life due to the virus is tragic, but has been mostly the old and infirm.

Why do the old and infirm deserve to die?

>the mRNA concept has been in labs for 20 years, but it's only been in labs

mRNA therapies have been in clinical trials for over a decade now[1].

1. https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/evolution-mrna-v...

Re: More on Vaccine Side Effects

#50

Post by kstrauser »

anonymouswacker wrote: post #29
beiller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am mostly on board with the vaccine, going to get my 2nd shot soon. But I do have a worry; This is setting a precedent where instead of treating disease now, we will preemptively vaccinate. It actually seems morally wrong to not take these steps to preemptively vaccinate. But will all these new vaccinations cause a virus to adapt to be more viral, similarly to how antibiotics has the potential to make bacteria resi…

Given that covid is entirely treatable in 99.9+% of cases (read the studies & physician anecdotes who have been treating it effectively since last March), it makes more sense to me to take the path of being proactive, healthy, and unvaccinated until it reaches Approved status. To each their own.

There's no other way I can say this: you absolutely suck at risk analysis. The worst effects of COVID are much more common -- and much worse -- in the general population than the worst effects of any of the common vaccinations available in the US. Your opinion here contradicts all available scientific facts.

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong.

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