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Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

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Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#31
post #18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, of you do need to keep up (with a lecture, for example), handwriting hurts because you don't have time to finish.

Learn some form of shorthand, and learn how to summarize on the go. Writing down word-for-word what a professor is saying is not going to work well. For that, bring a tape recorder (or an iPhone if you want to kill your battery) and retake your notes later when you can pause, rewind, etc.

And then you still will spread your focus. You'll have to summarize in paralel with trying to understand a professor. That doesn't work well and very tiresome.

Why not to watch a recording of a lecture in the first place and pause when you need to think?

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#32
(n=1 here)

Hard disagree.

Typing Chinese is so much faster and easier than writing by hand.

Sure, I don‘t learn how to write it.

But my dopamine-addicted web 5.0 brain would not have kept up with the slow pace of learning by handwriting anyways.

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#33

(n=1 here) Hard disagree. Typing Chinese is so much faster and easier than writing by hand. Sure, I don‘t learn how to write it. But my dopamine-addicted web 5.0 brain would not have kept up with the slow pace of learning by handwriting anyways.

Maybe in the short term, and to learn the basics/conversational Chinese, however I believe in order to fully and best understand the writing system it's still best to learn how to write the characters. Plus, the deliberate act of creating the characters stroke-by-stroke seems to better implant them in my brain more than just typing out some pinyin, but maybe that's just me. Spending 5-10 minutes writing a character helps me remember the meaning and shape of it much better than an hour doing pinyin/duolingo esque practice.

But I still probably can never see myself memorizing some of the more complex characters that even native Chinese folks have problems with :P

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#34

(n=1 here) Hard disagree. Typing Chinese is so much faster and easier than writing by hand. Sure, I don‘t learn how to write it. But my dopamine-addicted web 5.0 brain would not have kept up with the slow pace of learning by handwriting anyways.

> Typing Chinese is so much faster and easier than writing by hand.

The article is talking about how learning is facilitated by handwriting in a way that typing does not, and not about which results in more quickly produced text. (Also, it should be clear that how well you know the language will also put a bound on how fast you type.)

None of this is news. I've had teachers tell me this years ago. Writing engages the brain in a way that typing keys does not. That a study corroborates this claim is not surprising to me.

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#36

(n=1 here) Hard disagree. Typing Chinese is so much faster and easier than writing by hand. Sure, I don‘t learn how to write it. But my dopamine-addicted web 5.0 brain would not have kept up with the slow pace of learning by handwriting anyways.

I'm learning Japanese, and I'm learning the kanji using Heisig's Remembering The Kanji method. I combine that with flashcards on Anki on my PC. When it shows a keyword card, I'll write out the character on paper or I'll trace it in the air with my finger, then check if I got it right. That works surprisingly well to memorize them.

That said, the memory pathway should work for reading and writing, that is, recognition and production. I need a further skillset (pronunciation) in order to do that production on a computer, since being able to write individual characters by hand without any knowledge of the words or pronunciation isn't very useful.

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#37
post #17

This article, my personal experience, what I've heard from my friends, and the other evidence I've heard of all seem to support the same thing: that writing things by hand leads to better retention than typing. This seems to be the input-level dual of the meme that reading from physical paper leads to greater retention than from a computer screen. I'm curious as to what the cause could be for this one, as it seems le…

The physical act of writing engages the brain more than typing on a keyboard does. I claim that the physical motion and having to form shapes, as well as the more tangible spatial procession of your physical movement across the page reinforces the memory through association in a way that just pushing a key does not. Your hand is very intimately involved in making those marks on paper. Pushing buttons causes things to appear on a screen, but there is little tactile engagement and it isn't very differentiated (all pushes of a key are approximately the same). Writing is also more deliberate, whereas you can type while half asleep. The quality of your writing also depends on effort. Typed letters appear the same no matter how you press the key. You are mainly concerned about pushing the correct key, but how to press it is unimportant and there isn't much room for variation anyway.

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#38

That's great. Alternatively, after a few decades of wishing otherwise, I've accepted that for me the decision is between take notes via typing and don't take notes . I fully get the value of handwriting things. I wish it weren't physically painful for me to write more than a paragraph, but it is, and has been since I was a kid. (And I've tried literally everything I could find to "fix" that. It's not from lack of try…

The thing is, that returning to your notes is the least important part of taking notes. What writing notes longhand does is do a better job of encoding what you're taking notes about into your long-term memory.

Anecdata: As part of an ongoing project,¹ I spent about two years teaching myself Biblical Greek. As part of this project, I ended up filling a couple notebooks with handwritten notes—writing out tables of conjugations for every verb that was taught, handwriting translations to and from Greek, etc. What I found was that even though I never actually went back to the previous notes, I had good recall of the information that I practiced in this fashion. I think (but what do I know?) that part of it was the spatial component to the note-taking. I can't find stuff in code that I've written without searching,² but I could go back to my handwritten notes from learning Greek (2017–2019) and find, say, what I had written about the aorist passive without much difficulty.³

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1. https://www.dahosek.com/category/dewey-decimal-project/

2. You might think, “big deal—then search” but what if the search is not by some thing easily turned into text but rather some concept which I don't remember exactly what I typed to do it, or the searchable thing ends up being some bit of text that recurs so frequently that the search is effectively useless. I have a much easier time finding things I've read on paper from my personal library of around 1200 printed books than I do finding something I've read online even with the fast searching capabilities of the internet (although I will admit that it's a lot easier to find disposable writing again online than in print).

3. That spatial context helps in other ways too—I can find things from grad school notes (2002–6) pretty easily as well and there was one time in 1999 that I pulled up a quote from a book that I'd read in 1992 (which had no index) in just a couple minutes thanks to my memory of roughly where in the book and where on a page spread the passage appeared.⁴

4. Yes, I know that, especially with that last anecdote that I'm getting into stuff that's likely well outside the norm, but the basic point that spatial context helps with memory is something that's well-studied and documented. We don't get that with typing on a screen.

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#39

That's great. Alternatively, after a few decades of wishing otherwise, I've accepted that for me the decision is between take notes via typing and don't take notes . I fully get the value of handwriting things. I wish it weren't physically painful for me to write more than a paragraph, but it is, and has been since I was a kid. (And I've tried literally everything I could find to "fix" that. It's not from lack of try…

I know what you mean about writing causing pain in the hands and wrists...

Have you ever tried cursive? I can write much longer and with less pain when using cursive - really night and day.

Re: Handwriting is better than typing when learning a new language, study finds

#40
I can believe it. I firmly believe the brain acts very differently between typing and handwriting.

I make stupid mistakes all the time when I type. Not misspelling, but those easy there/their/theyre type mistakes. I think it's because I'm just mindlessly trying to express my opinion as fast as possible.

I don't write nearly as much as I type, but I've never made such a mistake when writing. Somewhere between the slower pace, or not being distracted by 100 things going on a screen, makes things feel more deliberate and carefully chosen.

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