Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom • Hacker News Board

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#171

Post by luffapi » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

It felt (at the time and in retrospect) that the horribly capped upload speeds of broadband really destroyed that decentralized and equalitarian ideal. The fight against Napster, content mega-corps snatching up broadband providers…

There was a brief moment in time where P2P looked like the future, but a lot of powerful wheels turn against it.

To your point, business and the desire for control ultimately trumped what was technically possible.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#172

Post by dmos62 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

I like your writing, but disagree with your point. Tools (technology) empower people; of course, it's up to them to what ends they use them. You don't want to empower a fool. If we're fools, we might as well make guillotines. But if we're smart, tools is what will give us leverage needed for a better tomorrow.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#173

Post by majormajor » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #98

retox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you've seen how a "journalist" doesn't have the patience to spend 60 seconds searching for something you're knowledgeable about, will you (not you specifically) take as gospel anything they say about something you're not knowledgeable about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmnes...

I have to say, I find this bit amusing: "That is the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. I'd point out it does not operate in other arenas of life. In ordinary life, if somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to you, you soon discount everything they say." The last 4 years of US politics (and 20? of UK politics) have given the lie to that belief. [edit: added UK politics because they're just as bad]

If somebody consistently exaggerates or lies to their boss, they just might get promoted!

Let's not act like news readers or politicians are different sorts of humans than anyone else.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#174

Post by oldgregg » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #129

oldgregg wrote: post #84

Google will attack and subvert every nationalist politician around the world because they are existentially dependent on globalism and weak national borders. Anyone who is a nationalist is racist and hates freedom according to Google. Nevermind self-determination. China is their worse nightmare because they are not dumb enough to let profiteers monitor and manipulate their citizens. Other countries are waking up to t…

Nationalism is followed by fascism quite easily, it o accident that many consider excessive nationalism to just be a kind of secular religion, with an easily route to toxicity, dogma, and racism. Look no further than the fact that nationalist movements have right wing ethno-state ambitions attached to them everywhere, usually with a return to “Greater X” where X is an older empire they use to have, usually when their…

So google is trying to save every country in the world from fascism... by forcing them into a technological matrix they exert total authoritarian control over. Lol. FAANG employees and their shills truly believe they are gods guiding humanity into the future.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#175

Post by Nasrudith » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #138

the_biot wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you blame Google, not the SEO spammers?

SEO spammers are exploiting a flawed system created by... Google.

Unless there is a flawless approach to stopping SEO that isn't something to blame them for as there would be literally nothing to do to stop SEO spammers!

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#176

Post by freddealmeida » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

Any speech like this is always requires the reader to add the speaker to the list of threats.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#177

Post by mclightning » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

>> "The reality is more mundane: technology is just a fancy word for tool, and the only thing the guillotine ever freed anyone from was tomorrow."

Did you just come up with that? :O

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#178

Post by belter » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

Ok so this is a PR interview, done due to the increased pressure Big Tech sees coming their way.

Its always the largest companies with the largest share and encrusted monopolies the first ones talking about "freedom", "leveling the playing field", and providing "equal opportunities for all".

They do that because they know that only regulatory measures can temper their current abuses. If there is a "level playing field" any other parameters of the game where they already have advantages will keep the outcomes biased in their direction.

The discussion on internet freedom is a diversion on what should be seen as the main item out of the interview. Sadly this being a BBC interview, as usual it was kind of a softball...

Here is a "level playing field" where the CEO from Google refused to commit to....Special Tax structures. When challenged did not commit to stop using tax havens.

At 47 min and 17 sec of the Podcast... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09nxhrd

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#179

Post by heresie-dabord » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #133

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

The Internet (and especially the WWW) suffered the fate of television: advertising and banality consumed the user's time.

The difference is that Internet/WWW also involved some degree of technical and creative understanding, whereas twaddlevision is passive absorption.

All told, I would say the the Internet/WWW is progress. But like any human progress, there is a deplorable waste of opportunity.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#180

Post by Nasrudith » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

cblconfederate wrote: post #100

as far as state actors are concerned, it's state propaganda that 's the greatest threat and big tech is actually facilitating this because it's structurally convenient for autocrats. For the rest, google is a company that can actually do things about the free internet, so actions are better than words here

Faciliating is a downright weasel word to insinuate complicity. Power lines facilitate power outages - without the transport there would be no power to out. And where the heck does the "Because it is structurally convenient to autocrats" conclusion come from and what the hell does that even mean?

On another note does anybody else notice the inherent contradiction and massive exploitability of the "state propaganda is a threat" line that is so common? Deciding what speech from foreign governments goes against their agenda and declaring it a threat is itself propaganda.