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Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

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161–170 of 203 posts

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overuse of ventilators in the first wave probably killed a ton more people than expected. Once they dialed back ventilator use and established cortison treatments and normal oxygen instead death rates lowered.

How did ventilators kill people?

Google scholar is probably a better resource to answer this question (and the "how" is still in the early stages of being understood).

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#162
post #20

There aren’t any measurable elements of personality that are fixed. Personality changes as you age. I’ve witnessed a reversal in each of the Myers-Briggs markers in the past 15 years (from INTJ to ESFP) — not intentionally, but that’s just the way my life played out. I’ve come to see the truth of the matter like this: every human being has a need for socializing, but it takes effort and is exhausting. The amount of e…

I think one of the reasons psychologists reject Myers-Briggs is because it's not unusual for your results to change from test to test. The test that they prefer (the Big 5), does have introversion versus extroversion as one of its axes, though.

All Big 5 traits except neuroticism correlate with Myers Briggs traits. The claimed unreliability comes from studies treating the traits as dichotomies. Instead of continuous scales like basically every MBTI test. The same methodology would make Big 5 look unreliable too.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#163
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to hear more about your life experience - how much human contact do you have on a weekly basis?

Not the one you replied to, and I live in the city. But my only normal IRL contact is my wife, and the cashiers at the supermarket. I have more contact with people online anyway. On a year-to-year basis, there is usually one metal festival 2-3 concerts, 2-3 visits to the parents and every few months meeting with friends, those were pretty much the only things I lost during the pandemic. I generally count myself as a…

How does dating work when you are so strongly introverted?

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#164
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible to me how we see NLP models with billions of parameters struggling to act human even on paper, yet somehow many influential people still claim that the Myers-Briggs type indicator can give predictive value to a 4-bit model of human personality. I get that most people are likely unaware of the measures of complexity involved in these issues, but at the very least I would expect today's intellectual tre…

And if you are going to talk about personality traits then at LEAST talk about ones with some scientific backing (the Big 5)

4 of the Big 5 traits correlate with the Myers Briggs traits.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the loneliness becomes unbearable and I retreat. I don't understand how this goes. Could you describe your experience with more details ? > I built a desk a couple of years ago and I'm still waiting to show it off to somebody. Well, you could paste a picture here :).

> Well, you could paste a picture here :). That does sound like a pretty nice thing to say! That said, i can't exactly recall seeing many "Show HN" posts about making furniture, though awesome stuff like that does occasionally appear in the comments. I do feel like reaching out to some of the online communities for those particular interest groups could be pretty beneficial, though! For example: https://www.reddit.co…

I find there is something enormously satisfying and intrinsically rewarding about working with one's hands, doing woodworking and the like. It's especially so when one has everything to hand and one can work on without distracting interruptions (such as having just remembered that you lent your No 5 jack plane to a friend and you now need it to continue). :-)

I've found that working this way and being able to see the product of one's labors slowly forming and taking shape often brings rewards in and of itself that I seldom experience in my technical work. It's difficult for me to put into words but there's something inherent in the nature of the process and to the flow of this way of working that provides fulfillment and that one rarely seems to tire of doing it. I know a few technical/professional people who are disparaging of such pursuits and view such work as just an unskilled or menial activity—or that it's tedious and boring.

I feel sorry for them in that they've not grasped the idea or notion of doing creative work with one's hands is not the slightest bit in conflict with their professional work and in fact that both activities usually complement one another.

It also makes considerable sense to me that introverts would seek solace and comfort in such activities for the very reasons I've given.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overuse of ventilators in the first wave probably killed a ton more people than expected. Once they dialed back ventilator use and established cortison treatments and normal oxygen instead death rates lowered.

How did ventilators kill people?

Some doctors claim that during the first wave ventilators were used too much and too early (instead of just breathing masks). Ventilator can actually damage your lungs. At the same time, cortison treatments were banned, another decision several doctors criticised (including a relative of mine). During the next waves cortison treatments and a reduced use of ventilators decreased the mortality rate a lot.

Doctors didn't dare to go against the guidelines, even with their reservation (they could be held responsible if they did).

Some people I know wrote a book on the subject and are claiming we should held governments accountable for those dead in the first wave (and they've been promptly censored and facebook-banned out of existence). I tend to err on the side of incompetence more than malice.

That said, there is plenty of ignorant people claiming ventilators kill based on statistics - but it's usually the other way round: once you need a ventilator you're either dead 100% or you can get a 40% survival rate with a ventilator.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#167
post #9

I'm a physically and socially isolated introvert in a rural county and have been working from home for a decade. About the only difference for me was the occasional need to put on a mask before walking in a store. My greatest inconvenience was very minor: I was turned away from a convenience store for not having a mask with me. Early in the lockdowns I made a trip to the closest big city for a dentist appointment and…

I had a similar experience but I was still bothered by the government restrictions.

I was working remote before covid so daily life didn't change much.

But they also closed my gym, my kids' school, cafes and restaurant I used for fun and prevented me from travelling.

Sure, I'm lucky my job is safe, albeit I'm not as lucky as those who were furlough in the UK and got 80-90% of their paycheck without having to work for months. Incidentally, I'll have to pay for this massive spend with an upcoming massive increase in taxes and delays to when I'll be able to withdraw my private pension.

Overall, not having childcare available and no fun didn't make me very happy and caused to lapse again into depression.

I stopped training for 6 months (Even though I bought a home gym), got fat, miserable and angry, had problems sleeping and burn out at work.

And I still count myself to be one of the lucky ones.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not terribly attached to the term introvert but it seems the best available term that communicates a dynamic I experience. Maybe lean into that confusion? Certainly, we would agree that to socialize one needs to try doing it and grow. Sometimes there will be failures and consequences. I've done the work to acquire my social skills and would hazard a speculation that I might have more sophisticated social skills…

> I actually like that but find it annoying that very few people actually want to dig in to any depth and talk about the flows of their emotional journeys, their core intellectual advanced, the things that they've learned, or instructive errors that they've made so that we gain wisdom from the conversation. I'd enjoy doing that with people I work with, but I don't think they'd appreciate me asking. Perhaps as a resul…

I completely appreciate this. I don't want my social preferences to drag people into a dialog they're uncomfortable with. My preferences should dominate no more than anyone else's. Some of us would welcome it as it seems you know. To manage the divide, I throw out invitations and ask questions in ways that let the other person select for their comfort level. Every once in awhile I find someone willing to keep ratcheting and I think we both find it gratifying and interesting.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#169
post #20

There aren’t any measurable elements of personality that are fixed. Personality changes as you age. I’ve witnessed a reversal in each of the Myers-Briggs markers in the past 15 years (from INTJ to ESFP) — not intentionally, but that’s just the way my life played out. I’ve come to see the truth of the matter like this: every human being has a need for socializing, but it takes effort and is exhausting. The amount of e…

" every human being has a need for socializing, but it takes effort and is exhausting. The amount of effort it takes and the degree to which it is exhausting differs from person to person, but it is not fixed. Socializing is like a muscle or a skill that can atrophy with neglect or develop with training."

That's ever so true and socializing does take considerable effort and it's exhausting. I should have made that point in my earlier post. If you read it then you'd know that I wasn't the slightest bit concerned about the isolation the pandemic has brought into my life. These points you make also account for the answers I gave to the article's poll—in that at times I'm very sociable and at others not so much.

As socializing takes effort and that it's tiring, I've cherry-picked the easy bits and largely ignored stuff that requires serious work and effort. I know that if I want or need to socialize then I can pretty much do so in any environment or situation as I've done so successfully in the past and on quite many occasions. The issue for me (and I reckon also for many others of a technical/scientific bent) is that I rarely see need for me to commit the effort to do so—given that there are so many other activates that I'd prefer to be doing.

Cognitively, I know, and I think I've always known, that I should spend more time socializing and networking than I do, as they can and do take one to high places along with a concomitant increase in one's status and income. Simply, I'd be better off in many ways if I just took the necessary time and effort, however the motivation is just not there for me to do so, as I'd have to stop doing other things that I deem more important and or more valuable.

There's nothing new in this understanding and the notion has likely been around forever. Recently, this old 2003 article by Paul Graham about Why Nerds are Unpopular made its reappearance on the web here on HN but also there have been other similar accounts around for decades. Of course, what's relevant to this story and these comments are the reasons behind the motivation for why some people are introverted and or why they act this way—as critically it determines whether a person considers said trait to be either distressing and unwanted or desirable and necessary—or perhaps even essential:

http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the one you replied to, and I live in the city. But my only normal IRL contact is my wife, and the cashiers at the supermarket. I have more contact with people online anyway. On a year-to-year basis, there is usually one metal festival 2-3 concerts, 2-3 visits to the parents and every few months meeting with friends, those were pretty much the only things I lost during the pandemic. I generally count myself as a…

How does dating work when you are so strongly introverted?

I met her online.

And it’s only a recent development. The older I get, the less extroverted I am. When I was in school and early in university, I tended to stay out till noon the next day. Then it changed to 5 in the morning. And nowadays, I go to bed at a time I used to start thinking about going out ;)

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