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How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

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Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are arguing that the complexity is artificial and provides little value.

Then they did not articulate that viewpoint very well. They also completely neglected to provide any justification. I stated a claim and provided extensive detail to support it. Replying with a comment that boils down to "nope" doesn't add anything to a conversation.

Is the cost added by the journals justified by the ultimate difference in output? It ultimately depends on your goals, probably. In my opinion, a good competing system would more or less completely eschew physical copies and save that process for anyone who is willing to take on the costs associated with that. And ideally, the peer review process would be independent from publishing, since that seems to be the invaluable service that publishing companies provide.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to look at the question: What marginal value do they provide over arXiv or Sci-hub?

Sci-Hub and arXiv are merely distributors. Like a movie theatre for a movie. Elsevier is like the movie studio that actually produces the movie after authors write it. The question of marginal value is missing that point. It's looking at the fact that, under this analogy, Elsevier is the movie theatre and is blind to the fact that it is also the movie studio. One way or another the work has to get done. Shifting it f…

Good points. I'm not implying that publishers add no value; I agree that they add some (but charge far too much). I'm just trying to find a way to determine the values of their different inputs.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#173
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the publishers stealing from the scientific community, universities and tax payers, and the politicians and bureaucrats are complicit. Not really. The publishers provide hardly any value, definitely not commensurate with their prices. So why don't the scientists simply walk away? Why not publish on the internet, why not simply upload to arxiv.org? It's because funding through quasi government agencies (NSF, NI…

The publishers provide hardly any value Here's an insider's view from having worked the tech side at a small scientific publisher. Prices are too high and the model is flawed [-1] but your opinion is not accurate, the publisher did a tremendous amount of work: First a distinction, two types of editors: The publisher's editors, each of which handled a batch of journals. The journal editor, who did not actually work fo…

In the traditional model, journal editors and the referees do most of the work, for which they are usually not paid.

> The publisher's editors organized individual journal editors, helping to find new ones when one left, keeping them on deadline, etc.

Most journals have an editorial board and they are generally much better in finding new journal editors because of their contacts in the field.

Keeping deadlines is only important when you are printing separate issues. When you have a journal that consists of an electronic stream of articles, deadlines are not a serious issue.

> The publisher's editors processed submissions to the journal working with criteria set by the journal editor to perform an initial review for off-topic, low quality, or otherwise flawed submissions.

This can also been done by the journal editors. AFAIK all rejections I have ever seen were done by journal editors.

> Other publishing staff:

>-performed proof reading & copy editing

>-did the layout & type setting

>-They used professional color matching labs for all color images, which itself was $100/image (tech for this has probably changed and made it cheaper) [0]

>-They managed every aspect of the actual printing of the journal, dealing with printers, reviewing proofs, coordinating a final round of review by the journal editor and authors.

>-warehousing copies for expected distribution over the life of the journal, re-prints when something was more popular than expected, and all order fulfillments to individuals & libraries. [1]

>-They handled all of the financial logistics, from collecting subscription fees to paying the journal editor and handling royalty fees for decades after a journal was printed & back copies were purchased.

Most of these tasks are no longer needed when the journal changes to free electronic publications. Fortunately, that seems to be increasingly popular.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#174
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These papers that have been paid for by tax payers and peer reviewed for free should be made freely available legally.

> papers that have been paid for by tax payers and peer reviewed for free should be made freely available legally There is a legitimate argument in the value added of curating research into journals. The publishers don’t do this. But simply eliminating that curation mode is unlikely to be feasible.

Sure, I'm not saying these journals should be abolished, i merely want the papers to be available for free. You might still want to browse the journal to see what is hot right now.
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