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Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

arstechnica.com

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Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#51

Post by rangewookie »

ALittleLight wrote: post #19

I wonder if the anti-cheat system could insert ghost enemies for a few frames, or about 20-30ms, fast enough that humans wouldn't really notice. If players are shooting too often at ghosts, that may be a good reason to ban.

20-30ms would be noticeable to a trained eye. Speedrunners often hit buttons frame perfect during a 1/30th or 1/60th second window. Many people today are playing on 120-240hz monitors. Additionally, if you're training on gameplay from X game and that game has theoretical ghost frames that the player doesn't see / shoot at, then the hack shouldn't shoot at it either.

It's a bit of a chicken an egg problem.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#52

Post by stickfigure »

somebodythere wrote: post #23
ALittleLight wrote: post #19

I wonder if the anti-cheat system could insert ghost enemies for a few frames, or about 20-30ms, fast enough that humans wouldn't really notice. If players are shooting too often at ghosts, that may be a good reason to ban.

They could just modify the cheat to filter out enemies that appear for less than two frames .

True, but there would be a lag of days to weeks before the cheaters adapted. You could bust everyone in the mean time.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#53

Post by jacobmischka »

void_mint wrote: post #43
_the_inflator wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I side with you. Also being a pro-gamer in RTS years ago, I can relate. There are many small steps between n00b level and mastery and a lot has to come together to be at expert level in gaming. Usually experts can play in variable settings, cheaters only in one particular. Experts can adapt, while cheaters usually not. Usually real talk about how you handled and interpreted a certain situation will show the differenc…

Cheating in video games is nothing like steroids. The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents. Steroids aren't magic and don't miraculously give the user abilities they didn't have prior. Both Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis were on steroids, fwiw. "True winner" is a joke.

> The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents.

Sure, because they were also doping. Seriously though, I wouldn't say steroids make you _more skilled_, but they absolutely give a physical advantage over natural athletes. Which is why there aren't any top level natural athletes anymore except in very dedicated natural-only circles.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#54

Post by void_mint »

jacobmischka wrote: post #53
void_mint wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheating in video games is nothing like steroids. The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents. Steroids aren't magic and don't miraculously give the user abilities they didn't have prior. Both Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis were on steroids, fwiw. "True winner" is a joke.

> The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents. Sure, because they were also doping. Seriously though, I wouldn't say steroids make you _more skilled_, but they absolutely give a physical advantage over natural athletes. Which is why there aren't any top level natural athletes anymore except in very dedicated natural-only circles.

I'm not sure what point you're making. My point is that steroids don't turn average people into elite athletes, which is much closer to what auto aim or wall hacking tools in FPS games do. Average people appear elite because their tools make them perform that way. This is not what steroids do.

You're agreeing with me, I think, but in the form of an argument.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#55

Post by riveducha »

I did this for the FPS game Valorant, not for cheating, but to see if I could make a 100% computer-controlled opponent.[1]

It involved some weird Logitech mouse hacking for the control side of things and was overall really rough, especially with how much latency was involved.

With a normal USB capture device, the latency is around 50-100ms, so it’s hard to do lightning-fast reaction. Even more so if your view is moving at the same time. Everything that normal aimbots do by directly accessing the game’s memory suddenly becomes much harder when you don’t have memory access.

For anyone interested though, the computer vision models publicly available are both very good and also easy to fine-tune for a specific use case (e.g. a specific game).

[1] https://riveducha.onfabrica.com/valorant-ai-pytorch-opencv-l...

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#56

Post by stanford_labrat »

jiggawatts wrote: post #41
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meta game of “cheating” sounds way more fun to me than playing any of these games.

Dota 2 is probably the most complex game I've ever personally played. It takes hundreds of hours of play just to learn the basics of the rules. There are over a hundred distinct hero characters to play, each with mostly unique skills. At a few hours per hero just to learn the essentials, it can be upwards of 500 hours before you even have a good idea of what's going on. Getting a feel for the overall flow of the game…

There is demand for this sort of work in the League of Legends space. Could be of interest for you!

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#57

Post by allendoerfer »

void_mint wrote: post #54
jacobmischka wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents. Sure, because they were also doping. Seriously though, I wouldn't say steroids make you _more skilled_, but they absolutely give a physical advantage over natural athletes. Which is why there aren't any top level natural athletes anymore except in very dedicated natural-only circles.

I'm not sure what point you're making. My point is that steroids don't turn average people into elite athletes, which is much closer to what auto aim or wall hacking tools in FPS games do. Average people appear elite because their tools make them perform that way. This is not what steroids do. You're agreeing with me, I think, but in the form of an argument.

A better comparison to cheating wouuld be, if one of the runners would have taken a car instead of running.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#58

Post by ajuc »

void_mint wrote: post #43
_the_inflator wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I side with you. Also being a pro-gamer in RTS years ago, I can relate. There are many small steps between n00b level and mastery and a lot has to come together to be at expert level in gaming. Usually experts can play in variable settings, cheaters only in one particular. Experts can adapt, while cheaters usually not. Usually real talk about how you handled and interpreted a certain situation will show the differenc…

Cheating in video games is nothing like steroids. The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents. Steroids aren't magic and don't miraculously give the user abilities they didn't have prior. Both Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis were on steroids, fwiw. "True winner" is a joke.

Additionally there is doping in video games too - a lot of pro gamers in rts and moba take adderall to focuse more and have better reaction times.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#59

Post by the8472 »

Funny, recently there were threads about anti-cheat rootkits where people argued they're justified because they provide some defense against cheaters who wouldn't be sophisticated enough to exploit the analog hole.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27640553

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#60

Post by frobozz »

RHSeeger wrote: post #17
smolder wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheats are about two things: money or prestige. People want to get back at the players who so rudely beat them normally, and get high competitive rankings that make them look better than other players in that games community. Or, they use the cheats to create high ranking game accounts to sell to players who want to look good, or they simply cheat to win prize money. It should go without saying that this kind of acti…

> money or prestige Or accomplishment. Some people cheat just to accomplish something.

Not really, because if they cheated, they didn't actually accomplish it.

They cheat to gain the prestige of having accomplished it.

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