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Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

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Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#71

Post by vorticalbox »

mattkrause wrote: post #30
nasalgoat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't decades of that policy at Microsoft prove that it doesn't work? People then optimize to make sure they only work on projects to keep their score up.

Basic math too. Suppose “ability” is normally distributed in the population and in your initial team too. Replace people when the new candidate improves the team’s median ability (supposedly what Amazon’s “Bar Raiser” checks). I kicked together a simulation of this process. The first replacement is pretty easy (50/50), but the hundredth hire on a team of ten often takes tens of thousands of interviews, and sometimes…

Would love to see this code if you don't mind sharing.

Mostly interested on how you even create a simulation like this.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#72

Post by joezydeco »

nasalgoat wrote: post #7
gmadsen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is for companies without the recruit demand. Amazon has stated before they try to remove the bottom 10% regularly to keep the average performance moving up

Didn't decades of that policy at Microsoft prove that it doesn't work? People then optimize to make sure they only work on projects to keep their score up.

These are all echoes of General Electric's / Jack Welch's stack-ranking 'innovation' which still gets lauded by MBA types but has been a disaster everywhere it was implemeneted.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#73

Post by sangnoir »

nasalgoat wrote: post #3

Most successful companies I know are constantly recruiting and trying to keep people onboard - why would they be trying to actively get rid of people?

> why would they be trying to actively get rid of people?

It's the same idea behind stack ranking: get good recruits, while getting rid of the under-performers who either slip-through, or whose performance deteriorated while on the job.

Amazon would like to think they are keeping the good people onboard and throwing out the deadwood.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#74

Post by quickthrower2 »

aaomidi wrote: post #18

Meanwhile Amazon recruiters keep spamming me to join their cult. No one *wants* to work for you anymore. You don't need to recruit. If someone is desperate enough they'll let you know.

For 500k? Yeah I’d do it even for a year, working on the most dullard shit then have 3 years off.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#75

Post by tines »

posharma wrote: post #63

This is a company that is enjoying roaring success with such questionable employee management practices. How does this happen? Does success have no correlation with bad culture? If yes, why are other companies focusing their time and energy on good work/employee culture? What gives?

Maybe the case is that "bad" culture (i.e. culture that is bad for employees but good for employers) can "work" (i.e. make the company money) for a little while. And that's all the time that it needs to work for, if you have short-term goals like creating a virtual monopoly. Then you can relax and reform you image afterwards, which is fine with you because you already have everyone's business anyway, and they're not going to go elsewhere.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#76

Post by yupper32 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #74
aaomidi wrote: post #18

Meanwhile Amazon recruiters keep spamming me to join their cult. No one *wants* to work for you anymore. You don't need to recruit. If someone is desperate enough they'll let you know.

For 500k? Yeah I’d do it even for a year, working on the most dullard shit then have 3 years off.

Other Big-N companies have comparable pay with way less stress.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#77

Post by sangnoir »

nasalgoat wrote: post #7
gmadsen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is for companies without the recruit demand. Amazon has stated before they try to remove the bottom 10% regularly to keep the average performance moving up

Didn't decades of that policy at Microsoft prove that it doesn't work? People then optimize to make sure they only work on projects to keep their score up.

Managers with good teams may bypass this by partaking in a "hire to fire" scheme where the newest joiner is guaranteed to be at the bottom of the performance list, shielding those with longer tenure.

This works for a while - until word gets around, then you find your hiring funnel drying up.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#79

Post by innocentoldguy »

trhway wrote: post #5

Another goodie from AMZN - hard cap on max of years of experience for a position. Nice way to filter out the old dudes like me. I suppose the trend will naturally spread through the industry. Edit: it is max cap in hiring requirements. The requirements are directly from AMZN recruiter (AMZN email address, etc). The max is bullet pointed together with the min. The max is also additionally clearly stressed in the descr…

I didn't experience this while working at Amazon and I'm an old fart.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#80

Post by patch_cable »

avereveard wrote: post #62
ozzythecat wrote: post #25

> “Should I tell an employee that I entered them into Focus?” the question reads. The response: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.” The headline is editorialized. IMO whether you’re told you’re in Focus or not is irrelevant. If your manag…

> should be permanent, regardless of your performance? You're assuming that the tool will only be used objectively and transiently, a big if in a tool with mandated secrecy. The real question is should the tool remain secretive so that people in power can use it completely unchallenged as a weapon against employee?

> “Should I tell an employee that I entered them into Focus?” the question reads. The response: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.”

> “If the employee directly asks, ‘Am I in Focus?’ you should answer honestly,” the response continues. “However, remind the employee that the use of a specific product should not be their take-away from the conversation, as there are important performance gaps they must address.”

That doesn't sound like mandated secrecy. That sounds like they think the employee shouldn't care what the specific product is called.

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