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What really happened to Jack Ma?

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Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#201

Post by Jochim »

mc32 wrote: post #137
Jochim wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

Of this were a big problem in the west, we’d see a pause in immigration to the west. People learn fast if things are not good. If you’re targeted, if you’re harassed. I don’t mean people who have very little choice (their home countries are so bad they have to leave), but I mean middle class families who have alternatives. They still choose the west as a destination by choice. I think this is a reasonable proxy indic…

I didn't intend to speak to the relative scale of the problems, merely that we shouldn't ignore that it's still a problem and we should still be trying to improve. My original wording wasn't great at conveying that.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#202

Post by MsMowz »

andreskytt wrote: post #193
MsMowz wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we must have different understandings of what causes power struggles within leadership. The comparison to the 1953-1956 period in the USSR also feels a bit misplaced to me, as although there was a minor power struggle during that period, it didn’t have broad implications the way the death of Mao did. (I also don’t agree that the structure of the CPC is all that similar to the structure of the CPSU during Stal…

Calling what led to tens of executions, had an amnestia releasing 1.2 million criminals amongst the public and had top brass spending days in meetings with emergency support being flown in, minor is an understatement

I’m not saying it’s minor apropos of nothing, I’m talking about it in relative terms to the consequences of the Gang of Four’s downfall.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#203

Post by native_samples »

eric-hu wrote: post #196
native_samples wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anywhere in that video or web page that has a date?

The video has overlay text saying it's May 10th, which seems to be a reference to this event: https://www.reuters.com/technology/jack-ma-makes-rare-visit-... The project screen behind him in the video looks like it says Aliday 2021 at the top, and the 20 second video clip has subtitles that seem to match what he's saying. The content of what he's saying seems generic, something like "Ali needs to have a singular visi…

Thanks. I can't read Chinese, is it the 510 at the start? That would make sense.

I very much doubt it's DeepFaked. Why bother? If the CCP were holding Ma and wanted him to make a generic video like that for putting up appearances I'm sure they have ways to make him do that. I suspect the OP is correct and it's simply that the author of the article doesn't know how to search Chinese social media.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#204

Post by TMWNN »

thebooktocome wrote: post #141
MattGaiser wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the USA What the US does to non-citizens outside the USA is a messy area. Inside the USA? The rules are far more clear.

> The rules are far more clear. Can you clarify this? As far as I'm aware, the US govt can dispute anyone's citizenship without recourse, even if you're holding e.g., a valid passport. From 2016: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/22/504031635... As far as I know, nothing in this article has changed.

>Can you clarify this? As far as I'm aware, the US govt can dispute anyone's citizenship without recourse, even if you're holding e.g., a valid passport.

Your cite does not support your claim. If Palma had ever had a US passport (expired or not), his situation would never have occurred in the first place.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#205

Post by maguay »

"If Jeff Bezos disappeared, and there was a question that he was in trouble with the US government, I think the press would be all over this. In this case, nobody seems to be too curious about it," via [an interview](https://racket.com/stu/rt6Yh) with the George Calhoun, the author of this piece.

That really may be what's most noteworthy about this case—it feels like it should be a bigger deal, and so it's hard not to speculate about it.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#206

Post by BuckRogers »

nickpp wrote: post #123
permo-w wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just authoritarianism

They always come together.

That's because people don't understand the words that they use. Even people that label their countries communist.

'Communist' and 'nation' are mutually exclusive terms. There's no such thing as a communist nation, it's not possible. Communism as originally defined by Marx is lack of a state.

You can start another 100 countries and call them communist but they're really only Leninist (or derivative ideological strains). Guys starting with Lenin took the rather popular idea of statelessness, which is required to completely eliminate the master-slave / lord-serf / employer-employee relationship of capitalist employment, and used that popular economic ideology to create a vanguard state to work towards communism. It was always an attempt, either sincere or not, as a jumpstart towards communism.

I'm not a communist, nor am I a sympathizer. I'm a wholehearted statist in favor of democracy. I do think there are lessons to be learned from Marx's examination of the capitalist economic model, and believe we could have a better hybrid system with workers' cooperatives to compete with capitalist enterprise. I'm just telling the truth on this one, there cannot be a communist nation. It's a complete contradiction. Lenin completely understood the USSR couldn't possibly be both a state and communist, but admitted this, and called it communist anyway. And all of this is why if you read about 1800s communists, they're all referred to as anarchists. Still are, if you're talking to someone that understands communism.

Authoritarianism comes in every flavor of Kool-Aid.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#207

Post by BuckRogers »

ralusek wrote: post #143
janto wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said, except for China not being communist. The CCP's take is "Mao was 70% right" and officially identifies as communist. Its stated end goal is a communist society. It is in service of this goal that they are taking a capitalistic / globalization route to expanding their Lebensraum. Whether CCP = China I guess is another discussion, but I don't have a strong view there.

Many communists assert that "state capitalism" is a step on the pathway to communism. From an outsider's perspective, we watched a failing communist state open up markets under Deng Xiaoping, and become the fastest rising capitalist power in the world. First, the thing that took the country from being a failed state to the fastest elimination of poverty the world has ever seen was specifically its rejection of commun…

A market economy has nothing to do with capitalism. Market economies existed long before capitalism was in practice. Capitalism is an employment model.

As far as crediting their rise due to their economic opening, I’d say that is not reproducible. Not without the agreement of the wealthiest nation in the world to begin massive investment into it. If it were that easy every nation would do it for the same result.

Definitely agree on everything else, and I addressed this more completely elsewhere in this thread but it’s impossible to have a communist country. Communism is anarchy. Leninism is a vanguard state.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#208

Post by meh99 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #168
meh99 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions see sky wizards, should I? I get the difference. It doesn’t absolve our culture of ignoring it’s deficiencies. But look what happens at a university in 2008 when students simply sit on the ground. Is there a difference? Or have we just accepted our fate? I don’t think I’m the one that needs to take tour advice.

There might be a difference between belief in sky wizards and belief in taxation in capitalism being as authoritarian…

I was not speaking to taxation. I’m speaking to private influence on wages, regressive taxation, privilege for the financial elite, the real health issues and costs of extreme inequality as being authoritarian.

Relativity; being poor isn’t a character flaw. Lack of experience means not knowing what one should be fighting for.

Relativity is a scientific fact yet in the free world we enable class-based suffering. Do we throw them in a gulag?

No, we let them rot in the open in tents under bridges, and complain about it. We’re far more civilized.

Even for engineers buying power is incredibly diminished by inflation to prop up Bloomberg’s and grandpa’s property portfolio he was able to afford starting in 1970.

Normalized agency in deference to political nostalgia not what communities need isn’t constrained to China and has real consequences on lives. Is it jackboots with machine guns? No. But the effects are just as measurable.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#209

Post by Smithalicious »

null_shift wrote: post #166
Smithalicious wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the neighborhoods that are dangerous to white people? I white person has a higher chance of getting in serious danger in a majority black ghetto than a black person would in virtually any majority white neighborhood.

why do you refer to the black “ghetto” vs the white “neighborhood”?

To make my claim more specific (not all black neighborhoods are dangerous, just ghettos) and because a far larger proportion of primarily-black neighborhoods are ghettos than primarily-white neighborhoods (since there are far fewer black people and they're a disadvantaged demographic)

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#210

Post by selimthegrim »

noone321 wrote: post #181
chartpath wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBTQ folks probably have fewer children than the average. The demographic challenges we face are in scaling services to support the global population. So wouldn't freedom of gender expression, if anything, make things easier? Assuming that queer people will somehow take over the world and cause an unsustainable birth rate sounds a bit like the right-wing "gay agenda" conspiracy theory. Not to mention that people bor…

That's not what they're worried about. At all. Forget PR talking points for a minute and think about the very real relationship between macroeconomics and empires. THAT is party elite care about here. The Party forced the population to HAVE fewer children in 1980. They did this primarily to jump start their economic modernization plans. Moreover, they figured everyone would start having kids at replacement rates seco…

My friend's wife is South Korean (she was an orphan) and I hear about this all the time.
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