Live data from Hacker News

What really happened to Jack Ma?

forbes.com

121–130 of 210 posts

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#121

Then in May, it was reported that Jack Ma had actually visited Alibaba headquarters for an employee social event. I took this at face value and asked my wife (Chinese) what her opinions were on Ma having not been seen in public for so long. Within a couple of minutes she brought up some Chinese social media posts: video: https://open.163.com/newview/movie/free?pid=TG921CJDP&mid=TG... that do indeed show Ma giving a s…

Is there anywhere in that video or web page that has a date?

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#122
post #114
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather billionaires exerting "unchecked power" or party officials exerting actual, unchecked, power? Because the unchecked power of the typical billionaire couldn't achieve what is being done to Jack Ma.

I'm indifferent. Honestly I think I'd rather see elites fighting among themselves than select a particular brand of unchecked unaccountable power to be lorded over me. Would you prefer to live under Kim Jong Il or Kim Jong Un?

It's not about the elites. If China's not afraid to disappear their richest, most internationally well-known celebrities what does that mean for the average citizen?

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's plain communism: nothing is yours, the state owns everything (including your life). But I guess the difference between crown and communism is best explained in Animal Farm.

It’s just authoritarianism

They always come together.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#124
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But not because some government official suddenly decided they should You mean like this guy, for example? https://www.npr.org/2020/12/11/945565473/u-s-clears-for-rele... Or the (by now, likely in the thousands) people killed by US drone attacks? I don't want to play the whataboutism card, but let's not pretend that the US is somehow exceptional here. In fact, I'd consider it one of the more troubling countries, wi…

The USA is exceptional in that that stuff does not happen to citizens within its borders.

[deleted]

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#125
post #97
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBTQ as a movement is seen as a western influence. It’s funny that I saw your comment, earlier today I read a machine-translated version of this article(1) that was shared by a Wechat contact. I would say this attitude is fairly common among people 40+ in China. Warning if you don’t want to get angry: it is full of repulsive views. (1) https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Qar43EmA7x8yhntk5OhXTw

I don't understand your argument. Are the screenshots in that post faked? Because if they are not, they prove that those movements are Western influence...

Another instance of the Celebration Parallax.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#126
post #25
post #18

I think this, in combination with the author's previous article about the moves the CCP have made on Ma's business make it pretty clear what is happening. Ma is being held whilst his businesses are dismantled. Ant is being turned into a traditional bank, Alibaba is being attacked from several directions, Ma's university (a clear source of soft power) is being shut down. When you then ask where Ma is I would say it's…

What happens if Xi kicks the can tomorrow? How smooth is the transition going to be? China is so massive I cant understand how they dont have multiple power centers bumping into each other all the time.

Well last time there was a "successor problem" China went through a decade-long political and economic turmoil that was the Cultural Revolution.

Having experienced that first hand, Deng implemented the term limit, so that there won't be a position of absolute power for the rest of one's life (it's just too much a temptation and thus recipe for chaos every 20-30 years or so).

Now that the term limit is gone, I don't think the transition would be as smooth as the past two decades.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#127
post #18

I think this, in combination with the author's previous article about the moves the CCP have made on Ma's business make it pretty clear what is happening. Ma is being held whilst his businesses are dismantled. Ant is being turned into a traditional bank, Alibaba is being attacked from several directions, Ma's university (a clear source of soft power) is being shut down. When you then ask where Ma is I would say it's…

I don't think CCP would throw away billions of worth just because they dislike the man. Unlike the west, China is allowed to meddle into the affairs of any company, so it's not hard to imagine they are just profiting from him, like a shadow takeover. This explains why he is shown around from time to time: to calm down the investors. At some point this circus would be over, and the companies will collapse by themselve…

The CCP makes a trillion dollars a year off of the current status quo, they can afford to throw away billions as long as the trillion keeps coming in.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#128
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

>In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested while working on their own car, or entering their own home because a neighbour saw them and decided they did not or could not belong. Does this go beyond anecdotes and are that quantifiable occurrence…

My point wasn't that these things happen disproportionately in the west. It was that to imply, as the GP did, that these issues do not exist or are not problems in the west is both incorrect and damaging.

Corruption is a pretty good example. When it occurs non-western country it's called out and criticised but when speaking about western countries we dress it up in fancy clothes. In the U.S. it's "Lobbying", in the UK it's "Cronyism" or "Chumocracy". By redefining the terms, corruption becomes something that only happens elsewhere, in less "civilised" places, and not something that has to be dealt with at home.

Labour could be another, there's a huge lack of perspective in discussions around foreign labour standards where we will condemn the working conditions in China or India while ignoring the fact that these people are experiencing those conditions working in the factories of some of the wealthiest companies in the west.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#129
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the USA What the US does to non-citizens outside the USA is a messy area. Inside the USA? The rules are far more clear.

On an individual basis the rules are often vague and selectively enforced. As a collective institution there was the whole Edward Snowden thing where he pointed out that the NSA had definitely not been following those rules and no one who knew what they were doing seemed particularly keen on stopping them.

That is a big problem but kindof a separate issue. He may have been targeted because he was critical of the government but it's really hard to argue that he didn't do anything against the law. Maybe he should have whistleblower protection but his case isn't as simple as persecution solely for being critical of the government which is what this thread seems to be about.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#130
post #18

I think this, in combination with the author's previous article about the moves the CCP have made on Ma's business make it pretty clear what is happening. Ma is being held whilst his businesses are dismantled. Ant is being turned into a traditional bank, Alibaba is being attacked from several directions, Ma's university (a clear source of soft power) is being shut down. When you then ask where Ma is I would say it's…

how would this impact the stock? it didn't seem to have responded yet to those news. shouldn't that be the case if those theories were true? lots of large investors should have info on Ma's and Alibaba's fate.

It may be affecting the stock, if you compare the last year to the tech stock prices, it is down significantly.

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/BABA:NYSE?window=5Y&com...

Post reply on HN