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The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

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Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#191
It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways.

Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not launch hundreds or thousands of lower cost, less capable birds incrementally? You can start with a small "first light" capable instrument with a dozen or so spacecraft, then over time and more launches put up more and more capability and decommission failed or low capability pieces.

Use some computational methods to combine the sensor collection from dozens, hundreds, or thousands of these kinds of spacecraft and you could end up with planet sized instruments pretty efficiently.

By eliminating lots of the hard engineering for the massive instruments (like serviceability, difficult to make massive mirrors, etc) you can build even better instruments that are generational and relatively inexpensive.

You get a more flexible funding story as well, e.g. fund at maintenance levels during difficult economic times and fund at larger amounts during boom times with matching launch schedules.

Tasking the fleet could be more dynamic as well, with different researchers able to reserve different percentages of a huge fleet for their specific experiments and needs -- e.g. reserve a hundred spacecraft for a long dwell "deep field" type observation, or reserve thousands for planetary imaging in a nearby solar system.

I know there are naysayers about this who think it's improbable. I urge those to think about the Starlink fleet, which went from zero birds in the air in 2015 to over 1500 spacecraft today. Now instead of radio antenna, what if they had imaging sensors and were turned to face out? SpaceX certainly didn't spend anywhere near what JWST ran as a program to reach this point and the development time has been a fraction so far.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#192

I really hope this isn't a "MAKE IT PASS, OR ELSE" situation. this telescope doesn't deserve any functionality setbacks in exchange for more schedule setbacks. a telescope made late because of fixes is a fully working telescope. a prematurely launched telescope is broken for its entire service life.

The Hubble was launched broken. The mirror had a precision defect and produced blurry photos. A team had to go up and manually correct the focus. https://www.nasa.gov/content/hubbles-mirror-flaw

A post launch fix of this type will not be possible for JWST due to the solar (not Earth) orbit of the instrument.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#193

I really hope this isn't a "MAKE IT PASS, OR ELSE" situation. this telescope doesn't deserve any functionality setbacks in exchange for more schedule setbacks. a telescope made late because of fixes is a fully working telescope. a prematurely launched telescope is broken for its entire service life.

I fully agree, my first gut reaction every time I read an update about the JWST is fear that something will go wrong. I hope they take all the time needed to get it right.

I do also wonder if interactions with air / moisture / dust will degrade the components faster than they would wear out in space, the longer it's here on Earth? I'm guessing this is all accounted for too, just crazy to think of all the variables at play in the success of a project like this.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#194

I really hope this isn't a "MAKE IT PASS, OR ELSE" situation. this telescope doesn't deserve any functionality setbacks in exchange for more schedule setbacks. a telescope made late because of fixes is a fully working telescope. a prematurely launched telescope is broken for its entire service life.

The Hubble was launched broken. The mirror had a precision defect and produced blurry photos. A team had to go up and manually correct the focus. https://www.nasa.gov/content/hubbles-mirror-flaw

Can’t do that with this orbit

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#195
post #54

If the JWST survives launch but has a subsequent mechanical problem that prevents it deploying properly (and it’s the kind of problem that would have been fixable on Hubble, using a shuttle mission) would it be feasible to mount a robotic rescue mission to chase it down and remote-hands it back to life? For less than the cost of just launching another JWST?

Also, all robotic space repair satellites are very into military tech (even taking pictures of open space is very strictly controlled, because you may inadvertently take a picture of a military satellite). Not event talking about disabling err.. repairing, de-orbiting, spinning etc other satellites. That types of tech is opposed by military, that's actually one of the reason we don't clear dangerous space garbage (es…

> taking pictures of open space is very strictly controlled, because you may inadvertently take a picture of a military satellite

Citation needed

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#196
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

You need exceedingly accurate timing and transmission to do computational inference with multiple telescopes. Even minuscule errors will wreck the entire effort. It is very, very hard even with only three telescopes on earth, nevermind a hundred hurtling around in orbit communicating with lasers.

The people who work on these things aren’t morons, and everyone knows the scaling factor of multiple receivers. It’s just very, very hard.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#198
post #66
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so amped for this telescope. I hope it exceeds my expectations. It also looks like this location will be quite crowded in the future https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrange_po...

We really should have a big science lab up at L2

Agreed. What else would you put up there?

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've spent almost 10 billion dollars on this telescope so far. What's another 0.5 billion for a repair mission?

That 0.5 billion (which to be clear, is a number I made up) won't guarantee that JWST will be fixed. The "fixer" spacecraft could end up failing itself. Or it could discover new problems that it's not equipped to handle. Also, congress would be extremely critical of NASA if JWST fails. They would not be excited to shell out another $0.5 billion for a chance to fix it.

Not to mention that we don't even currently have a real capability to repair the currently malfunctioning Hubble telescope anymore. That was designed for maintenence from the now non-existent space shuttle in mind. Trying to accomplish the same with the Dragon would be unknown territory and it seems that there is little desire from both NASA and congress to even bother.

JWST in comparison is a far trickier and complicated beast to tinker with. This is the biggest reason why they are so paranoid about any fault before orbital launch. It would be all but impossible to service it - on both a technical and political level.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder the same for large (especially international) companies, government bureaucracies or other organizations. With thousands of employees and branches in different locations, it must be impossible to get a full understanding of the state of the system.

This is what Systems Engineers do. There's no magic bullet, but the basic process is lots and lots of documents. Much of what NASA does is published openly so you can get a feel for what some of these document types are like. The wiki page gives a decent summary. Building a model for the system is indeed a big part of the challenge. These days it's increasingly done as a fully detailed software simulation. The big CA…

Ugh, I can't deal with Systems Engineering. It's a whole lot of gobbledygook before getting to the crux of the problem. A software engineering analogue would be FizzBuzz Enterprise Edition

https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris...

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