Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night • Hacker News Board

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#411

Post by noduerme » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

powerapple wrote: post #182

noduerme wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no idea such laws existed. That's pretty crazy. But then, this is a gov't that does not trust its citizens to raise their own children, or even historically to decide how many kids to have. When I was a kid in America, my parents disallowed videogames in the house. No NES or Genesis for us. On the occasions I'd go over to other kids' houses and play, I had no idea what I was doing. On the one hand, this seemed…

I don't think your family experience somehow can represent everyone in this world. There are parents working shifts may not have time to manage their kids as your parents did. The view you have on this world is so distorted, why many people don't choose to eat healthy when they "can" all to eat organic home cooked food. It is like you don't sell cigarettes to kids. Sure you can say the governments don't trust their p…

My parents worked. They didn't monitor us 24/7. They just didn't buy us games. They'd check that our homework was done. And they would ground us if we were caught doing something we weren't supposed to (like watching TV on a school night). My dad used to come home and put his hand on the TV to make sure it wasn't hot. Key point: You can teach good behavior without having to monitor 24/7. You can also eat healthy for less than the cost of eating fast food.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#412

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

calsy wrote: post #409

mensetmanusman wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s clearly safer to leave a group of kids in the car with the air conditioning running while they are on their iPads for seven minutes then it is to bring them all through parking lots, regardless of how the media has distorted the risk of this situation ( Extreme cases are usually the result of drug addiction). Totally not trolling, just pushing back against media misinformation.

No it’s not ‘safer’. You’re ‘stats’ don’t consider the fact that nearly all parents take their kids with them after parking the car. If parents on masse decided to leave their kids in the car then the number of incidents would greatly increase.

The risk is spontaneous engine failure to stop the AC is lower than the risk of children running in different directions among moving vehicles.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#413

Post by seizethegdgap » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 11:30 PM UTC

yonaguska wrote: post #278

_flux wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As privacy invading it is, I can easily see how this would be effective means to curb bad behavior online, such as trolling or spamming—or worse.

Hahahahahaha, I'm sorry. This is a ridiculous take. It sounds as if you are justifying handing over your entire digital identity, which includes given someone so much information about yourself that you could be easily impersonated, is justifiable because it will cut down on online trolling? Not to mention, you are giving all of this information to a regime that regularly "disappears" people for dissenting stances, a…

Nothing in the post you replied to was a justification, and in fact starts with "As privacy-invading as it is".

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#414

Post by calsy » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 11:45 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #412

calsy wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not ‘safer’. You’re ‘stats’ don’t consider the fact that nearly all parents take their kids with them after parking the car. If parents on masse decided to leave their kids in the car then the number of incidents would greatly increase.

The risk is spontaneous engine failure to stop the AC is lower than the risk of children running in different directions among moving vehicles.

In what world would it be acceptable to leave multiple kids unattended with the car engine on?

Who lets their children run around in different direction around moving vehicles? Thats the whole point of having a parent present. Thats your responsibility... you go on about risk, but ignore the fact you should go another time or another shop if its too busy for you to manage multiple kids, find a car park closer to the entrance or find some help. Thats mitigating risk. Locking kids in cars with engines running is the exact opposite of risk mitigation.

I don't claim that any of this is easy, quite the opposite. But it was 'too hard' is not going to cut it.

You've completely distorted the statistics to justify, I assume your wife's actions. Imagine the scenario where instead of all parents taking their child with them into the shops, they all left their kids in the car with engine running. What do you think would happen to your statistics?

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#415

Post by russli1993 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 12:05 AM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #336

eloisius wrote: post #87

This is clearly (at least to the Western sensibilities) a vast government overreach into private life, but can we marvel for a second at a company employing AI to curb addictive behavior towards its product? I definitely don't agree with the government mandates dictating how and when you can play video games, but it is kind of incredible to see a company use AI for something other than encouraging addictive behavior…

When I spend too much time on TikTok (about an hour I think), it slips in a video of a relatable young person saying something like “hold on! You’ve been scrolling for way too long now!…” or alternatively, “I understand it’s easy to keep watching videos, and trust me I’ve been there before, but those videos will still be there tomorrow. So go get some extra sleep, turn your phone off, do yourself that favor and have…

This is why there is support for this law in China. The law places the responsibility to not provide online gaming service to minors between 10pm and 8 am. The law doesn't criminalizes the actual consumer of the content. It doesn't ask Tencent to catch minors playing games on behalf of law enforcement. That would be a police state. 1) Capital always seeks more profits. And companies like Tencent are controlled by capital. So they will always use the most effective way to earn more money. That includes making content more addictive. 2) Hence, this law is seen as a leash on the companies themselves to not cause more online gaming addiction. 3) the nature of this law is more like alcohol and cigar ban on minors. Where the companies and sellers of alcohol and cigar is held liable for selling to minors. 4) In this specific use case, privacy is not necessary sacrificed. All the system needs to do is make sure the current user is the user who says they are. Basically, its a IPhone Face ID style system. You can store all the biometric data on device. It doesn't need to go to some server.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#416

Post by wrycoder » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 12:09 AM UTC

atatatat wrote: post #399

wrycoder wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I called Fidelity in the US about my account, and the agent told me the system was taking a voice print, to be used to verify me the next time I called in.

Did you tell them to opt you out...?

My guess is you can't.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#417

Post by w0de0 » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #384

w0de0 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your view, protest never leads to change in America? In your view, citizens of the US never visit or are visited by agents of some level of government? In your view, the US government is not the collection of disparate power bases we see but actually a hidden monolithic “they,” with a discrete “intent” that is a composition of unspecified but doubtless nefarious interest groups? In your view, China’s government is…

Protest can lead to change in America, but before it does the American intelligence system starts visiting and assassinating people. This is well documented. The US government is a collection of a few, not that many, disparate power bases that nonetheless have extreme similarities. Which is why, for example, COINTELPRO was a bipartisan effort. The Chinese government is absolutely susceptible to radical change because…

On the main but with caveats, I agree with your argument, assuming nuance even where you do not elaborate it.

Our most important difference, I think, is around the significance and value of the hypocrisy of an ostensibly liberal system which nonetheless quietly affords the powerful with easy access to state-backed violence in the protection of their interests.

In my view, the presence of this hypocrisy is an abiding reminder to the civitas of the possibility of stable and positive change. It is the promise that such change will reaffirm, not diminish, the essence of one's culture and tradition. Just as a sinning Catholic retains the possibility of redemption by honoring their professed beliefs, a hypocritical yet liberal society has ready-made the justification and mechanism for reform. The nation may repent from its despotism and is naturally pressured to do so; what tyranny does exist must be hidden and so is neutered.

Take the French: since 1789 they have always managed to found a new, and hopefully slightly better, republic, even after interludes of imperial lunacy or foreign invasion. If you'll permit me to say so, their nation cannot escape from the hypocrisy of ruling by absolutism a people conscious of their own rights. In the extreme, this means violence, but in the smaller battles of society and change this means free protest, politics, voting, and yelling, as in America. Much - most - of the noise is in vain, but not always, and not in the matter of the most preciously held freedoms. To simplify: there, the state sins and fears the discovery of the people; in China the people sin and fear the discovery of the state.

I often feel in discussions like this that I am defending Americans from the charge of ignorance. We speak so loudly of our ideals that we perhaps beg for an insult to our intelligence, just as a common self-righteous blowhard would (hello).

And - by the fact of our empire our leaders' words carry an implicit threat, even when they speak to a laudable ideal. In the subtext I feel I am arguing for the existence of this empire. I feel I am arguing that the empire is a utilitarian good despite the arch-hypocrisy of the tyrannical, violent realpolitik that built it. I am not - though I am sure we would disagree ardently there as well.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#418

Post by noduerme » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

VRay wrote: post #407

rotebeete wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Germany, the government does not trust parents to home-school their children This is to protect children from their parents, this "anti-excessive-gaming" bullshit is directly attacking personal agency! If you have the resources (time, money, teachers etc.) to get your children the same education they would get in a (german) public school you might as well found a private one. This is even incentivized by federal…

Maybe it's different in the USA, but I feel like public school was a complete waste of my time.. I'd read through the entirety of all the textbooks in the first couple of weeks of the school year and learn everything a kid my age was expected to know. Then I'd sit in class for 5 hours a day for 9 months, reading pulp sci-fi, shuffling a deck of cards, or just moping with my head on my arms. I came out of it with such…

Where I grew up in a liberal big city, the only home-schooled kids I met were super well-educated children of professionals, and were way ahead of both public and private school kids. I was a lot like you - always finished my homework before class was over, read all the materials and was bored in school most of the time. I was jealous of the home-schooled kids. My parents would say, "well but it's good to be around people your own age," but the home-schooled kids had plenty of friends. That gave me the idea that homeschooling was a better way.

That was before I met home-schooled kids from the rest of the country, where it had nothing to do with giving them a better education; it had a lot to do with limiting their education, and forcing them into a fundamentalist Christian or Mormon ideology. Those kids really didn't get out to socialize much, and they didn't get a good education, either.

I think parents have a right to homeschool their kids, and a government ban on that scares me. But I also think the parents need to meet or exceed the qualifications of the teachers who would otherwise be teaching, and [edit][strikethrough]the government[/strikethrough] *society* has some interest in preventing someone from having 48 children and forming a cult.

So like a lot of other stuff extremist wackos do, "this is why we can't have nice things." The goal is to walk a fine line in the center where government can stop crazy people from using freedoms to do crazy things, while still allowing sane people to have the rights and privileges they need as free individuals within the framework of society.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#419

Post by mensetmanusman » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

calsy wrote: post #410

toomanybeersies wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Acceptable in the wider community" is a fairly poor standard to go on. Hitting your child with a belt was acceptable until recently (and still is, in many places). It's only in the past 15 years that our histrionic society has decided that in all instances, without exception, that leaving your children unsupervised in a car is attempted murder. My parents used to leave me in the car from time to time, they always ma…

‘My parents used to do it’, is also a poor standard to work from. Those incidents I mentioned occurred in Australia. ‘Well the incident rate is low’, that’s because almost all parents take their kids with them. If we all decided to start leaving kids in cars then the number of incidents would increase. You live in a community, if you take actions generally frowned upon by the majority of people, like it or not you wi…

“ You live in a community, if you take actions generally frowned upon by the majority of people, like it or not you will possibly receive some negative consequences, especially if it involves children. ”

This is the logic used by people who call the police on children walking to the park without an adult. These are commonly people who watch a lot of news (and are therefore more misinformed according to multiple studies) and who would fail basic knowledge tests on actual risks of various activities.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#420

Post by calsy » Thu, Jul 08, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #390

calsy wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing to do with risk, everything to do with supervision. A person sees a child in a car alone, they don't create a risk assessment with instant access to available stats in their brain. They see a child alone and immediately think 'where are their parents?'. When you see those horror stories in the news a person's first thought is 'where are their parents?'. Regardless of the overall risk, people will always ask '…

"Acceptable in the wider community" is a fairly poor standard to go on. Hitting your child with a belt was acceptable until recently (and still is, in many places). It's only in the past 15 years that our histrionic society has decided that in all instances, without exception, that leaving your children unsupervised in a car is attempted murder. My parents used to leave me in the car from time to time, they always ma…

The hitting a child with a belt is a weird analogy. I don't think it's as acceptable as you think it was. Yes we all probably experienced it growing up, but how many times do you see a child given the belt in public? Did you ever see someone walk up to a parent with a crying child and ask 'why haven't you given them a flogging? You can use my belt if you want'. It's always done behind closed doors out view. An adult hitting child is always likely to spur negative emotions in people and opinions are likely to change.

That is completely different to kids in cars, there wont be a time where we will decide 'Hey maybe leaving them in the car is better.', it just wont happen.

Society views always change, that should be obvious to anyone. Events that shock people change the way we think about certain situations. Kids dying in cars as hot as oven's is one of them.