What really happened to Jack Ma? • Hacker News Board

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#151

Post by janto » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #136

ralusek wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarianism is possible with most types of government, but is necessary for communism. Most communists are well aware of the fact that an economic system with strict objectives requires a very powerful mechanism in order to accomplish this, and most of those understand that this mechanism is an authoritarian state, but there are obviously the delusional few that refer to the state by any other name (syndicates,…

> Authoritarianism is possible with most types of government, but is necessary for communism. Only if the people aren't onboard. The whole idea of communism is with people being onboard (and running soviets, worker councils, etc). Some not being onboard is OK - communism is about majority rule, not what some person likes or dislikes. In that, it's like any other system. A modern democracy also doesn't care if somebod…

Even if the majority was initially on board, one could argue that communism inevitably leads to authoritarianism and is necessary for its continuation.

I strongly doubt that a communist system would be ok with everyone not being onboard. It is highly likely that any disagreeing individuals would be classified as bourgeoisie or enemy of the revolution.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#152

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

meh99 wrote: post #148

koonsolo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's plain communism: nothing is yours, the state owns everything (including your life). But I guess the difference between crown and communism is best explained in Animal Farm.

I don’t really see the inequality of representation and taxation in capitalism as any less authoritarian. If everything I do is being validated for value by management and bosses, and my buying power is managed by bankers who have inflationary powers to dilute my earnings, we’ve just made managed economy ephemeral. We’ve socially normalized grift and protection rackets. Some estimates suggest up to 30% of inmates are…

If you don’t see a difference, but millions of others do, it might be worth steel manning the opposite of your conclusions. It’s a useful rhetorical exercise at least.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#153

Post by mmdoda » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

Jochim wrote: post #74

genmud wrote: post #5

One thing that you learn quickly when traveling the world is how easily one can go from having a good time with your friends, to being in a shitty prison without food, running water or a phone to let your family know if you are dead or alive. I have friends travel to interesting places during times of (relative) stability. To paraphrase one of the guys that I know: "When you travel in some of these places, you exist…

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

I find this to be completely untrue. Anecdotally, my friends from South Sudan, who aren't white, tell me that the unsafest neighborhoods in my country are better than the safest in theirs.

This is the same sentiment that I get from most non-white foreigners.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#154

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

hkai wrote: post #149

Admit it, many Americans want something like this to happen to Musk and Zuck.

I think Americans that don’t support Zuckerberg or Musk would be concerned if they were house arrested after criticizing the current administration.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#155

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #59

dang wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological or nationalistic flamewar. No, we don't care about Xi [1]. We just care about not having tedious and nasty HN threads, which is what comments like this point to. Plesae don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [1] and if you worry that we may secretly be communist agents please see this mini-FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=266…

Eventually sticking your head in the sand is condoning behaviour. I understand your perspective however given YC's conflict of interest due to investing in Chinese companies I think it would be prudent to stick YC's flag in the ground. Inaction and fence-sitting is radically political too.

FYI, asserting that ‘inaction’ is a politically radical act is in fact a fringe belief.

In the end, remember that politics is preference, and that whoever is in power gets to assert their preferences more.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#156

Post by Leparamour » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

Aeolos wrote: post #86

MattGaiser wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is exceptional in that that stuff does not happen to citizens within its borders.

Is that really the case? https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793 "Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733 According to this ^, the police in the US is 3.5x more likely to kill civilians compared to other developed nations. (It would be i…

>"Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police."

These soundbytes usually (intentionally) omit half of the story. For example, how many police officers are being killed in encounters with black men?

And how many less lethal (for black men) encounters would there be with black men not attacking officers or third persons but actually complying with police orders?

The greatest danger to a black person's life only second to coronary diseases is another black person.

It's these kind of questions which grievance studies activists and journalists never (dare to) ask.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#157

Post by Bombthecat » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #144

Bombthecat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you could short the stock and make a killing? In around a year or two?

Shorting is about market timing. I wouldn't gamble on China not keeping the price high to save face. It could easily go the other way.

The one in China, i would assume that, but what about the stocks traded outside China? You don't buy tencent stocks in Frankfurt for example..

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#158

Post by lawnchair_larry » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

meh99 wrote: post #148

koonsolo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's plain communism: nothing is yours, the state owns everything (including your life). But I guess the difference between crown and communism is best explained in Animal Farm.

I don’t really see the inequality of representation and taxation in capitalism as any less authoritarian. If everything I do is being validated for value by management and bosses, and my buying power is managed by bankers who have inflationary powers to dilute my earnings, we’ve just made managed economy ephemeral. We’ve socially normalized grift and protection rackets. Some estimates suggest up to 30% of inmates are…

> Some estimates suggest up to 30% of inmates are innocent. And when plenty are in there for marijuana, that’s a bit more petty than a billionaire disrupting an entire society.

It seems like you haven’t actually done much research before forming your opinions. This isn’t the most outlandish claim you’ve made, but it’s the easiest to falsify. This entire narrative is ignorant and fantastical.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#159

Post by Smithalicious » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

Jochim wrote: post #74

genmud wrote: post #5

One thing that you learn quickly when traveling the world is how easily one can go from having a good time with your friends, to being in a shitty prison without food, running water or a phone to let your family know if you are dead or alive. I have friends travel to interesting places during times of (relative) stability. To paraphrase one of the guys that I know: "When you travel in some of these places, you exist…

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

What about all the neighborhoods that are dangerous to white people? I white person has a higher chance of getting in serious danger in a majority black ghetto than a black person would in virtually any majority white neighborhood.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#160

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #150

rorykoehler wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than welcoming them in through the front door like we have been doing until now. It’s come to the point where we need to have a constant and sustain vocalisation against the CCP and the dystopian future they are building. They represent an existential threat to anything that isn’t the CCP and they’ve been very successful in getting their hooks into western society and the world at large. You see it on Reddit a…

There are plenty of comments critical of the CCP like half the comments here. The difference is that they are actually relevant to the article, which has very little to do with Xi and has even less to do international law. This is probably why dang interpreted as flamebait.

First let me say I think dang does an exceptional job (far better than I could) in moderating this site and I am very grateful for it. Anytime I have fallen on the wrong side of the rules dang has been very fair and patient.

I don't disagree with your comment however none of the rules dang mentioned were actually broken. I read through the link and it only raised more questions. As I see it either the rules need to be updated or an official announcement from YC stating their position on this ever returning topic will put this to bed.