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Why I will never pursue cheating again

behind-the-enemy-lines.blogspot.com

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Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#321

Hi Panos. I was actually a student in your class last fall semester. To alleviate any doubt you may have, the class was known as “Info Tech,” and you had two sessions on Mondays and Wednesdays (2-3:15, 3:30-4:45 pm) in KMEC. Now I have a couple of problems with your post. Firstly, you attribute your lower evaluation rating of 5.3 for last fall semester solely to your lower tolerance of cheating. However, there is som…

>As a student who did not cheat, worked very hard, and still received a relatively low grade in your class, there’s nothing more infuriating.

I have no idea if you were graded fairly or not, I just wish to point out that grades should be based on results, not how hard one worked.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#323
As a CS professor with a lot of concern about cheating in general, one sentence stood out to me:

> One of the offenders was actually a repeat offender from the prior assignment and was also dismissed from the class.

This tells me that this professor who posted the blog entry may not quite understand the problem.

Ethics aside, students cheat because they believe that there is a positive utility in doing so. That is, they believe the expected likelihood of cheating is better than the expected likelihood of turning in their assignment cheat-free, even for a zero. Ultimately the only way to curb cheating is to make the utility negative. And not only negative: it has to be so obviously and publicly negative that it shatters the students' own rosy visions of cheating and getting away with it.

So what did he do wrong here? He allowed a student to cheat not once but twice, and then the only punishment was to fail him. Let us presume that turning in a zero twice, plus average work for the rest, will land you an F. If there is even an infinitesimal chance of cheating and getting away with it, this tells a desperate student that the net utility of cheating on two assignments is positive. If you need three zeros to land an F, you still only need a small probability of getting away with it. And so on.

Basically he slapped the students on the hands. He's part of the problem.

My recommendation to his institution would be as follows: a minor offense (as ultimately decided by an Honor Court, not the faculty member) would be course failure. A major first offense would be course failure plus community service. A second offense would be dismissal from the University with no readmission. And whenever a student is failed or dismissed, the department lets their students know that such an event occurred (with no details). Students should be made aware of how often they get caught as a group.

Then there was this sentence:

> Students would come to my office and deny everything.

It sounds to me that he was handling cheating on his own. This has two very high negatives. First, it sucked up enormous time on his part when there's a perfectly good institutional mechanism (the Honor Court or whatnot). Second, punishing such cases on his own opens him up to direct liability. Faculty can and are sued by students for doing such things. One of the purposes of an honor court is to have his institution take the liability since they made the decision. He should have simply written the students up, submitted to the honor court, and wiped his hands clean.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#324
post #298
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah correct. I should have mentioned that. I was detecting some cheating in Excel assignments, but I was only pursuing the very obvious cases. At most a couple of cheating cases per semester. For essays, it was pretty much impossible without the use of Turnitin, which I used for the first time in the Fall 2010 semester.

Essays are inherently problematic in most fields, because they're effectively always at least partially graded on the quality of writing, which doesn't have any connection with how well something was learned (which should have a connection with grade). Some profs separate it out better than others, but students usually have only vague or zero knowledge about who falls where, so the default approach is that, regardles…

While writing in and of itself is not connected to field knowledge. You really need to be a good writer to be an effective communicator.

One of the university degrees I did (effectively an arts degree) involved doing a lot of essay writing as part of the major. While I don7t really use the field knowledge I studied in the degree I credit my reasonably ok writing ability to all essays I wrote - which I have put to good use in writing technical reports and user documentation that no one else wanted to write because it was seen as beneath them.

Even with the ability to catch copy-pasters with tools such as turn it in, there is always private essay/thesis writers you can hire (there was an article from one of these writers sometime last year).

I just have to trust that despite a fancy degree, the cheaters get caught out in the place where it really matters - the workplace.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#325
post #324
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essays are inherently problematic in most fields, because they're effectively always at least partially graded on the quality of writing, which doesn't have any connection with how well something was learned (which should have a connection with grade). Some profs separate it out better than others, but students usually have only vague or zero knowledge about who falls where, so the default approach is that, regardles…

While writing in and of itself is not connected to field knowledge. You really need to be a good writer to be an effective communicator. One of the university degrees I did (effectively an arts degree) involved doing a lot of essay writing as part of the major. While I don7t really use the field knowledge I studied in the degree I credit my reasonably ok writing ability to all essays I wrote - which I have put to goo…

For reference, the story about the essay writer is here:

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> That is a major professional flaw and a post on how you plan to control your emotion may be appreciated by future students. I think he is readily admitting this is a major flaw, and he plans on controlling his emotions in the future by not obsessing about cheating. This is probably not the ideal response, but it is very human, and you have to give him props for admitting his weaknesses.

> you have to give him props for admitting his weaknesses. Um, no. No props for simply admitting his weaknesses. Props are for succeeding in controlling them, and for having shown that one actually does more than just going "look at these weaknesses in me these students are triggering in me with their terrible behaviours". Props for just admitting weaknesses has a good chance of making people go complacent and "look,…

Judging someone on their strengths and weakness are probably done best after we've walked a mile in their shoes.

This would be appropriate to anyone and everyone who is using a judgement here.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#327

Welcome to the future where the stupid with "credentials" will be ruling you. While you're busy doing actual work, building something, they're building networks of support in your employer's structure to enable them to rise. So when you explain something to them and get a blank look or questions that make it clear they haven't understood anything, you'll know why. But hey, they have a Business Degree. They win, not y…

I have no idea why everyone has gone off on a tangent about salary. It's not extraordinary for people with lower salaries to rule people who out-earn them (ever hear of Hollywood?). It isn't about money, it's about corporate power.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#328
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I detected 15+ cheating cases, I just asked permission from the Dean's office to notify students over email, and then direct them to the Dean's office for appeals. So I did that, notified the cheating students they got a -30 (negative the points of the homework) and directed them to the Dean's office for appeals. Well, it was very difficult to enforce the "talk to the Dean's office if you have a problem with my…

Of course I would not advocate physically pushing the student out of the office. > Instead, I sent an email to the class. I just said that there were cases of plagiarism detected and whomever cheated, could come and find me. For the rest, I would report the case . . . I guess I just read this as an invitation to come and discuss the matter with you. And I understood from this that any who didn't come would be referre…

+1 on the office hours comment.

In fact, I would argue that office hours is NOT the proper venue to discuss these matters anyway. From my experience, the purpose of office hours was to clear doubts and further understanding of the class material. I would've been extremely pissed off if I came to office hours with a legitimate question about the material, only to waste my time waiting on a bunch of people arguing about cheating.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#329

Hi Panos. I was actually a student in your class last fall semester. To alleviate any doubt you may have, the class was known as “Info Tech,” and you had two sessions on Mondays and Wednesdays (2-3:15, 3:30-4:45 pm) in KMEC. Now I have a couple of problems with your post. Firstly, you attribute your lower evaluation rating of 5.3 for last fall semester solely to your lower tolerance of cheating. However, there is som…

Speaking from personal experience (both as a student and a TA) nothing is worse than ECE professors for bad teaching or ECE students for cheating, neither aspect of this scenario really surprise me. I think it is sad but telling that the author gave up so quickly on what is (as the OP pointed out) the basic expectations of his job, but it is also telling about the overall quality and current state of ECE departments…

As another poster mentioned, please read the article, the author did not give up so quickly.

Re: Why I will never pursue cheating again

#330
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point. But consider the following: these numbers are for the students that admitted cheating. There was a significant number of other assignments for which I suspected cheating but I did not have enough evidence. So, I erred on the side of having false negatives in the accusations, rather than false positives. Now, if you are teaching a class where you have some suspicion that half of the students have che…

I felt that I am teaching a class full of kids that come just for the grade, and not for learning. From reading your blog post and your comments here, I got the impression that you cared more about your pay raise than about the students learning. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I could have misinterpreted whats been said and that you were probably a victim of circumstance, but you blame the guy for demonstrating…

I got a different impression from the blog post. Being a teacher does not mean you have to do charity. Everybody needs to get some food on their table. I can relate to that being rewarded less because of something you feel you were not responsible, makes you feel upset. However, I didn't get the impression that it's all he cares about. It was just one paragraph among many after all.
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