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Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

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161–170 of 361 posts

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#161
> But to stop mirrored stocks and other synthetic assets from trading, you would have to shut down the underlying open-source software code that makes up the blockchain and is used by a global user base that includes many anonymous players, he added.

Don't these synthetic assets need an oracle to inject the price of the real assets into the blockchain? To stop these synthetic assets from working, couldn't they just go after the oracle provider, and make it stop providing the price?

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#162
post #33

Why are we allowing this to happen? This blockchain madness needs to stop.

Cryptocurrencies are a decentralised ecosystem, as such anybody can create a token. "Why" people are allowing this to happen, is that crypto enthusiasts build said decentralised ecosystem. Trust layers need to be built on top for it to become more useful, for instance, a trusted and auditable institution issuing tokens.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#163
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I would like to emphasize the fact that they're settled once individual contracts expire, be it cash or delivery. I am yet to find a useful derivative that lacks a settling mechanism. How would you even price such a contract that lacks settling? Like why should it be worth anything at all?

Things like BTC swaps don't really have settlement periods: every so and so numbers of often (often 1 or 8), longs pay shorts using some premium formula is swap > index, and vice verse if swap I suppose you could construe that as some periodic partial settlement mechanism, though.

Is it not that settlement nominally occurs when you choose to exit your position? Which raises various questions about whether whatever stack of turtles your swap is built on can provide liquidity when you need it.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#164
post #161

> But to stop mirrored stocks and other synthetic assets from trading, you would have to shut down the underlying open-source software code that makes up the blockchain and is used by a global user base that includes many anonymous players, he added. Don't these synthetic assets need an oracle to inject the price of the real assets into the blockchain? To stop these synthetic assets from working, couldn't they just g…

Pretty sure you are correct. It's something of an Achilles heel for any smart contract trying to interact with information that is off-chain.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#165
> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system.

I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#166

> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems

Financial regulations are bad, because they criminalize honest fraudsters and scam artists. How are they supposed to make a living in our current system? /s

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#167

> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems

Not that it is bad, just useless, money always find the way around them.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#168
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I would like to emphasize the fact that they're settled once individual contracts expire, be it cash or delivery. I am yet to find a useful derivative that lacks a settling mechanism. How would you even price such a contract that lacks settling? Like why should it be worth anything at all?

You could technically buy real shares and sell synthetic shares on the blockchain, harvesting the price difference. This would generally have the same effect as the blockchain user buying the stock directly, but through an intermediary collecting premium.

Why stop there, you could buy real shares, sell synthetic ones, and then sell the real shares, too. Or just sell synthetic shares without having any real shares in the first place. This seems like a case where a blockhain doesn't really do much good.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#169

> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems

Isn't it also weird that crypto enthusiasts assume that you obviously can't trust a central clearing house (or similar mechanism) when they have been working well for hundreds of years? In numerous cases humans trust institutions for certain things, and those institutions are usually strongly incentivized to act honorably, and do so. And when they don't, the court system works pretty well. At least in the countries where the vast majority of economic activity occurs.

These are two premise which... don't seem to hold water?

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#170
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed they held all the securities themselves facilitated 24/7 trading like that. Not holding the securities seems extremely dodgy.

They mint and burn tokens as necessary to make the price resemble the actual stock. When minting new tokens, you have to provide collateral in the form of stablecoins. Yes, it is as bonkers as it sounds.

Just when I think the crypto people can’t surprise me any more, here they go again.
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