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The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

salon.com

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Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#31

Post by vel0city »

temporallobe wrote: post #29

I have a tankless hot water heater system in my new home that runs on a city natural gas line. It’s super efficient and thus my energy bills are very low compared to what I used to pay for the traditional electric hot water heater in my previous home, however it’s not a silver bullet. I find myself running the water for a ridiculously long time in order for the water to start getting hot, sometimes for more than a mi…

There are electric instant hot water systems available. The sink at my office only has a cold water line plumbed to it and a small black box heats the water right there. I've seen some in kitchens for making things like soup or coffee real quick. Not sure why they're not more common, maybe reliability/flowrate/other cost issues?

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#32

Post by maxerickson »

temporallobe wrote: post #29

I have a tankless hot water heater system in my new home that runs on a city natural gas line. It’s super efficient and thus my energy bills are very low compared to what I used to pay for the traditional electric hot water heater in my previous home, however it’s not a silver bullet. I find myself running the water for a ridiculously long time in order for the water to start getting hot, sometimes for more than a mi…

The problem is the cool water in the pipes.

A typical solution is recirculating the water so that it stays hot.

(I have a gas tank heater and the faucets far away take a bit to warm up, because of the water in the pipes)

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#33

Post by jdsully »

temporallobe wrote: post #29

I have a tankless hot water heater system in my new home that runs on a city natural gas line. It’s super efficient and thus my energy bills are very low compared to what I used to pay for the traditional electric hot water heater in my previous home, however it’s not a silver bullet. I find myself running the water for a ridiculously long time in order for the water to start getting hot, sometimes for more than a mi…

The majority of your savings are from switching to gas from electric. Gas is significantly cheaper per BTU. Gas tank heaters are still pretty efficient. Especially if insulated.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#34

Post by analog31 »

maxerickson wrote: post #32
temporallobe wrote: post #29

I have a tankless hot water heater system in my new home that runs on a city natural gas line. It’s super efficient and thus my energy bills are very low compared to what I used to pay for the traditional electric hot water heater in my previous home, however it’s not a silver bullet. I find myself running the water for a ridiculously long time in order for the water to start getting hot, sometimes for more than a mi…

The problem is the cool water in the pipes. A typical solution is recirculating the water so that it stays hot. (I have a gas tank heater and the faucets far away take a bit to warm up, because of the water in the pipes)

Are recirculating systems safe? Those have to be designed to prevent microbial build-up. I'm thinking of Legionnaire's disease.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#35

Post by splitstud »

nradov wrote: post #20
kumarvvr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. DAM construction is essentially sequential. You can't build the top without completing the bottom. Manufacturing hot water tanks is trivial and highly parallelized. Thousands of manufacturers for parts, all of whom can contribute to the demand.

It looks trivial if you've never done it. If you actually try you'll see that manufacturing a safe, quality product at scale while turning a profit is extremely difficult.

Thankfully we have a large workforce with the experience to innovate in the manufacturing realm... oh wait.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#36

Post by minikites »

mabbo wrote: post #26
xupybd wrote: post #5

"This approach can be deployed far faster than dam construction" Can we really manufacturer that many hot water tanks in less time than building a damn?

One neat difference is that dams only provide benefits when they're done. Building a big dam takes a long time. But with the water heater solution, every time a water heater is replaced, we get the partial benefits immediately.

Good point. We can accomplish a lot in aggregate if we act together. Building codes and other regulations should be paired with financial incentives from government to accomplish energy goals like these and other climate goals. Markets are bad at solving this problem and we need to take some of the incredible wealth generated by those markets and in those markets to improve society.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#37

Post by sokoloff »

ttyprintk wrote: post #2

I think these water heaters in question are actually hybrid units. They cool the surrounding room to maintain a temperature set point. In some places, colder room air and thus more condensation is not appreciated. A less-sophisticated approach is to put your tank heater on a timer. Think carefully before you do this. Does your tank heater have the capacity to keep the water hot for a full shower, until you’re back un…

Inherent in the cooling is (local) dehumidification.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#38

Post by splitstud »

aaron695 wrote: post #30

https://archive.is/NrQQC for those who don't want to support Salon with clicks. The article just wanders aimlessly between lies. Pumped Hydro dams are tiny compared to hydro-power or water dams and are beautiful, the same size as solar or wheat farms. A cool seawater based one in Japan - https://www.google.com/search?q=okinawa+pumped+storage+&tbm=... A good example of a government doing something that worked is the A…

It's almost as if simple schemes can't solve systemic problems

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#39

Post by vorpalhex »

vel0city wrote: post #31
temporallobe wrote: post #29

I have a tankless hot water heater system in my new home that runs on a city natural gas line. It’s super efficient and thus my energy bills are very low compared to what I used to pay for the traditional electric hot water heater in my previous home, however it’s not a silver bullet. I find myself running the water for a ridiculously long time in order for the water to start getting hot, sometimes for more than a mi…

There are electric instant hot water systems available. The sink at my office only has a cold water line plumbed to it and a small black box heats the water right there. I've seen some in kitchens for making things like soup or coffee real quick. Not sure why they're not more common, maybe reliability/flowrate/other cost issues?

They need power and produce some noise. They take up space which may be at a premium. They require yearly-ish maintenance (running a cleaning solution through them with a small pump).

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#40

Post by minikites »

splitstud wrote: post #35
nradov wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks trivial if you've never done it. If you actually try you'll see that manufacturing a safe, quality product at scale while turning a profit is extremely difficult.

Thankfully we have a large workforce with the experience to innovate in the manufacturing realm... oh wait.

We used to be world leaders and we collectively decided it was better for a handful of people to be wealthy instead. Excess wealth (>1 billion dollars is a nice start) should be used to improve society in ways like these and in many other ways. A society is great when it solves problems, not when people are wealthy.
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