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The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

salon.com

21–30 of 258 posts

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. DAM construction is essentially sequential. You can't build the top without completing the bottom. Manufacturing hot water tanks is trivial and highly parallelized. Thousands of manufacturers for parts, all of whom can contribute to the demand.

It looks trivial if you've never done it. If you actually try you'll see that manufacturing a safe, quality product at scale while turning a profit is extremely difficult.

[deleted]

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#22
post #18

Virtual battery, there is an interesting project to do a similar thing with aluminum smelters where you heat them and operate at full capacity off-peak and then during peak electricity usage you run slower. Since a smelter consumes so much power this can significantly level the grid usage.

My dream was that you would exchange a bin of bauxite for aluminum for your home smelter. All the "waste" heat goes into heating your home.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#23
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly smarter timers could fix this problem. Raise the tank to 140+ once a day, probably at 4am, and work that into the energy storage regime...

Another issue arises in that the bacteria can propagate throughout the system, repopulating the heater. Some have checkvalves, but I'm no plumber. I urge great caution, although I'd wager you'd be fine, so long as you remain healthy.

Per wikipedia, it can form biofilms on pipes that will slough off. But the heater is still hitting high enough temperatures to kill it.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, timer or grid controlled water heaters are old and busted (especially with bacteria concerns due to a lack of in tank convection). New hotness are heat pump water heaters that are very efficient and can even add cool air to a conditioned spaces by their inherent operation. Electric vehicle charging orchestrated as large aggregate loads are what replaces “the humble water heater.” Tankless heaters are great if y…

Heat pump water heaters do seem promising... But many water heaters live in cold basements... Classic tanked electric is so cheap to make & operate, I have come to think they may always be with us. (Though certainly a heat pump water heater is an easy choice in the right climate)

There are split system heat pump hot water heaters which allows you to exchange heat with the outside environment, eg. https://reclaimenergy.com.au/products/residential/

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#25
post #5

"This approach can be deployed far faster than dam construction" Can we really manufacturer that many hot water tanks in less time than building a damn?

It's explicitly addressed in the article. 10% of the water heaters purchased in a year would offset the dam.

That 10% is 1 million out of 10 million.

I guess the lead time on water heaters is short enough to hand wave a yes.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#26
post #5

"This approach can be deployed far faster than dam construction" Can we really manufacturer that many hot water tanks in less time than building a damn?

One neat difference is that dams only provide benefits when they're done. Building a big dam takes a long time.

But with the water heater solution, every time a water heater is replaced, we get the partial benefits immediately.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another issue arises in that the bacteria can propagate throughout the system, repopulating the heater. Some have checkvalves, but I'm no plumber. I urge great caution, although I'd wager you'd be fine, so long as you remain healthy.

Per wikipedia, it can form biofilms on pipes that will slough off. But the heater is still hitting high enough temperatures to kill it.

Yeah, but only if it is flowing across the deposit.

If you do the "bare minimum 140f once a day" method, you have to flush all the hot lines with this for long enough to kill it.

All this also presumes correct thermostatic calibration and generally even temperature distribution in a system planned to age with minimal maintenance.

The process isn't instant, you also have to ensure the hot water hits all the lines down the way at the appropriate hold temp and, well, hold it there for long enough.

These outbreaks still occur today. Not a huge problem, but why design such a well controlled hazard back into your potable water?

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#28
post #18

Virtual battery, there is an interesting project to do a similar thing with aluminum smelters where you heat them and operate at full capacity off-peak and then during peak electricity usage you run slower. Since a smelter consumes so much power this can significantly level the grid usage.

Would that be economical? Places with abundant geothermal power like Iceland are probably going to make much cheaper aluminum smelting than anywhere else.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#29
I have a tankless hot water heater system in my new home that runs on a city natural gas line. It’s super efficient and thus my energy bills are very low compared to what I used to pay for the traditional electric hot water heater in my previous home, however it’s not a silver bullet. I find myself running the water for a ridiculously long time in order for the water to start getting hot, sometimes for more than a minute, depending on where I am in the house (obviously the farther you are from the heating unit, the more time it takes for the hot water to travel to its destination). Our water consumption is therefore quite a bit higher, thus I am not confident this is a good ecological or financial tradeoff. I have used similar systems in Europe and they seem to be a little quicker, but that could be from higher water pressure. They seem to suffer from the same problem though. Perhaps a good solution would be to have a small (4-5 gallon) booster tank that is periodically heated like a traditional tank-based system, so that when hot water is run, it can immediately be delivered while simultaneously engaging the on-demand system. Forgive my layman’s terminology, I’m not a plumber or HVAC engineer, but hopefully the idea is clear.

Re: The humble water heater could be the savior of our energy infrastructure woes

#30
https://archive.is/NrQQC for those who don't want to support Salon with clicks.

The article just wanders aimlessly between lies.

Pumped Hydro dams are tiny compared to hydro-power or water dams and are beautiful, the same size as solar or wheat farms. A cool seawater based one in Japan - https://www.google.com/search?q=okinawa+pumped+storage+&tbm=...

A good example of a government doing something that worked is the Australian government which wanted to spend money fighting the global financial crisis so insulated homes. Unfortunately deaths from the scheme, which were at the same rate as normal but became larger in number stop people talking about it much.

This tale of heat pump water heaters stopping a dam is rubbish. Where is the mathematics?

Heat pumps are awesome however, go to Technology Connections, not this to learn about them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZzto

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