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Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

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Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#51

Post by elevenoh »

notahacker wrote: post #49
elevenoh wrote: post #27

Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumbent insiders, privacy. I think this'll be adopted widely in the near-future by savvy traders. It benefits the little guys. And I look forward to the day companies preferably issue equity directly atop decentralized networks - under what legal framework and/or…

If you think this is a good idea, I'm happy to sell you and other "savvy traders" the Brooklyn Bridge. Benefits: no intermediaries and absolutely no money wasted on lawyers or due diligence. Drawbacks: you don't have a bridge, or even an option on one.

No one is saying no intermediaries, and certainly no one is saying no due dilligence though..

Optimal intermediaries emerge as a response to market conditions.

Some are fine with the current financial industry intermediaries. Some aren't.

Voice & exit.

In the near future we'll have other crypto-afforded options to 'exit' to.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#52

Post by tablespoon »

delusional wrote: post #26

How does this make sense? If they don't hold the underlying security, where does the value come from? This feel like it's another one of those "while money is flowing in it'll work, but if there's a run, it crashes spectacularly". If the liquidity dries up, i end up owning nothing. With a real security at least i end up owning a small part of apple, but here i literally own nothing.

How does this make sense? If they don't hold the underlying security, where does the value come from?

Come on, this is cryptocurrency. The whole point is to con people into thinking a fake thing is real because blockchain and cash in; with the off chance that if enough people believe, then their belief will make the fake thing real.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#53

Post by anonymoushn »

elevenoh wrote: post #43
arcticbull wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account. See Regulation S. Isn't the new monetization strategy in crypto literally to reorder blocks and front-run transactions due to the massive time quanta? How exactly do you think the NBBO rule is to be implemented? [1] The little guys as always are the most likely to get hurt…

>Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account Is this comment referring companies issuing equity directly on-chain? Of course it's currently illegal. That doesn't mean it's illegal in all global jurisdictions or that savvy traders won't find a way to have financial liberty, even if it means moving countries/jurisdicti…

> What a disingenuous way to frame the concept of MEV.. That's quite an unobjective bias you have.

"stealing money from unsophisticated users" seems like a correct characterization of MEV

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#54

Post by donmcronald »

logicalmonster wrote: post #32
nabla9 wrote: post #4

Many people are asking: Why government should regulate finance? In the US you should look at the so-called free-banking era (1837–1864) or the crisis era (1782–1930). Btw. Free banking didn't mean no rules. It just meant that there was no charter or permission is needed to start a bank, Finance was basically free for all. Easy to get in. Constant stream of economic recessions and banking crises harmed everyone. Wildc…

> Wildcat banking increased incentives for risk-taking and fraud to high levels. The evidence points out that it’s the current banking system that incentivizes risk taking because the international bankers know they’re getting a bailout every time when they mess up. > The US has huge financial industry partly because the regulation is so extensive. People from all over the world invest their money in the US because t…

> Naked short selling is running rampant and the system is protecting these crooks who essentially resell the same shares repeatedly.

> Stock trading must inevitably take place on a blockchain: it is the only means to publicly verify accurate data. The current system with self-reported data and slap on the wrist fines is completely ridiculous.

I don’t know if blockchain tech is up to the task, but I agree in the context of non-negotiable, immutable transparency. It’s the only way we’ll ever find out just how corrupt Wall Street actually is. IMO the answer is very!

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#55

Post by elevenoh »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #17

Looks like cryptocurrencies are not very innovative. They keep reinstalling all the features that have been there and improved in the regular markets. Tether and stablecoins mimicking the USD, now this stuff mimicking stocks, how are the not getting in trouble with government institutions or Apple? What are the loopholes? No existing laws yet? Or they operate and reside in far away jurisdictions?

crypto already allows one to buy AAPL token, privately, at 3am EST, for a ~$.1-$5 tx fee.

Not bad for the 1st decade of a long story.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#56

Post by arcticbull »

elevenoh wrote: post #35
yreg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fake stocks" does make it sound like the users are being mislead into thinking that they are buying actual stocks. Which doesn't seem to be the case.

It's definitely not the case. "Fake stock" == "stock futures instrument" depending on the writers underlying motive. And the bloomberg motive is clear.

Equity futures are constructed around, on settlement date, delivery of the underlying shares to long contract holders from short contract holders. They're called SSFs for short. [1]

There are cash-settled futures too, but they're usually for things that don't sit well in a brokerage account like "a NASDAQ" or crypto, for instance.

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/06/sing...

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#57

Post by mrkramer »

arcticbull wrote: post #46
mrkramer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on Webvan but Theranos was pure fraud. The so called "Crypto" industry will mature when regulation happens and when real cryptographers and real computer scientists enter the scene and start innovating. Until then we have hyped up teens playing with the buzzwords like blockchain and decentralized finance. >The size and scope of the scams currently going on in the Blockchain world is far worse than wh…

It's been almost 14 years, so where are the "real cryptographers" and "real computer scientists?" I suspect they've been searching and realized there's no "there" there.

I guess they are not interested; Microsoft recently shut down its Azure blockchain service[0] for example. Facebook made its own crypto coin but I am afraid that will lead to nowhere. Google and Amazon are not very interested as well so real cryptographers and real computer scientists are working on other stuff and on other problems.

[0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-is-shutting-down-its...

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#58

Post by elevenoh »

anonymoushn wrote: post #53
elevenoh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account Is this comment referring companies issuing equity directly on-chain? Of course it's currently illegal. That doesn't mean it's illegal in all global jurisdictions or that savvy traders won't find a way to have financial liberty, even if it means moving countries/jurisdicti…

> What a disingenuous way to frame the concept of MEV.. That's quite an unobjective bias you have. "stealing money from unsophisticated users" seems like a correct characterization of MEV

"the new monetization strategy" doesn't seem like a correct characterization of MEV.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#59

Post by tablespoon »

elevenoh wrote: post #27

Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumbent insiders, privacy. I think this'll be adopted widely in the near-future by savvy traders. It benefits the little guys. And I look forward to the day companies preferably issue equity directly atop decentralized networks - under what legal framework and/or…

> Benefits: 24/7, lower fees, less financial incumbent insiders front running your trades, less retail traders giving data of their every move to financial incumbent insiders, privacy.

The same can be said of monopoly money.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#60

Post by aewct »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #17

Looks like cryptocurrencies are not very innovative. They keep reinstalling all the features that have been there and improved in the regular markets. Tether and stablecoins mimicking the USD, now this stuff mimicking stocks, how are the not getting in trouble with government institutions or Apple? What are the loopholes? No existing laws yet? Or they operate and reside in far away jurisdictions?

From TFA:

> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system.

These are certainly new innovations and features, be they good or bad.

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