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Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

fortune.com

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Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#151

Post by maxerickson »

mizzack wrote: post #44
shoto_io wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s confirming data published by UK health authorities coming to the same conclusion. If you’re 2x vaccinated, hospitalization is highly unlikely for Alpha and Delta variants. See this report, page 44 bottom: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

What's going on on page 12? 35,251 unvax cases, 34 deaths 4,087 full vax cases, 26 deaths (!?) I'm guessing the vax population still skews older?

Probably older, and then also the vaccinated people that seek medical care likely had less of an immune response to the vaccine.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#152

Post by swiley »

mindslight wrote: post #112
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To have autonomy over their own medical decisions.

Education and intelligence are necessary for achieving autonomy. In general, it's hard to take claims for "autonomy" seriously when so many people's decisions seem to be arrived at by uncritically following social media.

To be quite honest: I'm not comfortable with my current education level regarding the vaccine considering the pretty aggressive censorship everyone has been doing with information on it.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#153

Post by elif »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #55
elif wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, remaining symptoms started disappearing after 2 weeks. By week 9 I could nolonger identify a single symptom. However the vaccine itself had weird and strong side effects on me for a month and a half.

Wait, so you had symptomatic COVID, then later got a vaccine? Or did you get COVID (with symptoms and a positive test) despite being vaccinated? In either case, how do you disentangle vaccine side effects from potential "long COVID"?

I had mildly symptomatic covid while my wife had acutely symptomatic covid. Then I had a year+ of long covid symptoms.

Then I got a vaccine dose and was very sick for 4 days and had painful systemic inflammation for 6 weeks, during which time my covid toes and tongue and cough disappeared. My second dose only gave me stomach pain for a week.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#154

Post by ho_schi »

afkqs wrote: post #108
ho_schi wrote: post #76

Probably we shall take into account, that journalist like to spread bad news! Looking back at the previous variants, the vaccines keep working. This is good news! What will bring is into trouble are non vaccinated people which build a big resource pool for Covid-19 to become more aggressive. Lockdowns, removal of rights or masks cannot eliminate Covid-19 (so called short term workarounds) but the vaccines can make it…

> Covid-19 only mutates when it has a pool to do so Have the vaccines shown to prevent infection and transmission, or only reducing the chances of getting sick? If not the case, will variants still develop among a mostly vaccinated population?

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-...

--- A: The data to support the EUA include an analysis of 36,523 participants in the ongoing randomized, placebo-controlled international study, the majority of whom are U.S. participants, who completed the 2-dose vaccination regimen and did not have evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection through 7 days after the second dose. Among these participants, 18,198 received the vaccine and 18,325 received saline placebo. The vaccine was 95 percent effective in preventing COVID-19 disease among these clinical trial participants with 8 COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group and 162 COVID-19 cases in the placebo group. Of these 170 COVID-19 cases, 1 in the vaccine group and 3 in the placebo group were classified as severe. ---

Maybe less with more aggressive variants.

--- A: Most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce transmission of the virus that causes the disease by those who are vaccinated. While it is hoped this will be the case, the scientific community does not yet know if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine will reduce such transmission.

---

That said. Results in Germany look like transmission can be stopped but not must:

https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQ/COVID-Impfen/FAQ_Transmiss...

I depends likely on how good your immune system works. Which is expectable.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#155

Post by thinkcontext »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #143
egeozcan wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have your medical decisions. You just aren't allowed to act irresponsibly and potentially infect people.

So by that logic, if the vaccine makes me more likely to have a 'walking case' of the virus, I shouldn't be allowed to get it unless I'm high-risk, right?

The vaccine doesn't make you more likely to have a walking case, it still provides substantial protection. It doesn't provide as much protection as hoped against that variant.

It is a good argument for the vaccinated to continue to wear masks when mixing with the unvaccinated.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#156

Post by utterboredom »

Auracle wrote: post #144
BucketsMcG wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty common, pretty serious. - One million self-reporting long COVID in the UK, give or take - 89% of them reporting symptoms at least 12 weeks after infection - 40% of them reporting symptoms at least one year after infection - 18.5% reporting that their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities had been "limited a lot" https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...

I’ve probably had some long COVID symptoms myself, but self reporting on something like this is next to worthless. You’ve got a mix of the placebo effect with people that had COVID attributing everything negative after to it, all backed with the media constantly reminding them of long COVID.

Agreed. I’ve suspected that I’ve had some after effects from COVID including some sleep and lung issues but I couldn’t tell you which is from COVID and which is from gaining weight during lockdowns. Chances are that it’s just that I gained weight and need to get back into shape.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#157

Post by thinkcontext »

cm2187 wrote: post #23
School-Cotton wrote: post #3

Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

To catch it or to get sick from it? Either way it would be fine. It basically reduces it to the level of a common cold, ie we can stop worrying about this virus.

The unvaccinated can't (or shouldn't) stop worrying about it. This means they are less likely to be protected by other people being vaccinated.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#158

Post by simonh »

webkike wrote: post #131
hestefisk wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you conclude that?!

The percent of hospitalization increased from 1.8% to 7%, which is about four times. This is basically lying with statistics

As I understand it that's still better than the non-mRNA vaccines, because it's an increase from a very small rate. What exactly is the lie?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#159

Post by AJ007 »

airhead969 wrote: post #106
cfontes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the big picture. Life is suffering with sparse sprinkles of happiness here and there. If you feel bad take a page from Budism, it's the best religion for your mind, and I am an avid agnostic. It's the "No bullshit" religion, basically it's your problem, fix it or learn to live with it. It teaches you to embrace suffering as part of living, everything is for you to endure, consider how to solve (or not) and g…

You're either a bloody liar, delusional, naïve, or don't have functioning eyes. - Famine in Yemen. Ongoing. - Famine in South Sudan. Ongoing. - Two years of drought in certain countries would push the world into global famine. Climate change weather patterns like Oregon/Canada and the ongoing mega drought in the US west and SW are just previews. - Millions and millions of homeless in America. I can see the camps and…

You should read more history books.

We could also resolve every problem you listed and then get nailed by a meteor and have a total extinction of all life of earth. 100% possible.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#160

Post by sjwalter »

bena wrote: post #114
School-Cotton wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Describing the covid pandemic as simply a small decrease in life expectancy is a little on the nose. How so? The first result I could find[1] estimates that life expectancy decreased by 1.18 years in the US due to the pandemic, which doesn't strike me as extreme. 1: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/5/e2014746118

Are you aware how hard it is to move the needle by any significant percentage when you are dealing with sets of millions? Life expectancy is essentially an average of when people die. Not to mention life expectancy was going up. So it not only stopped whatever gains we had, but reversed it by a substantial amount. We were expected to gain 2 years from 2017 to 2030. That's 13 years to go up 2 years. About 2.8 million…

Yea, statistics can make a case for anything.

Life expectancy went down, but the average age of a covid death was 82 years old, meaning half were older than 82.

These octogenarians and older are pulling the average life expectancy up every year they continue living.

It would be a way different story to have the average life expectancy go down because a bunch of, say, 20 year olds died.

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