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How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

learning-to-see.co.uk

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Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#91

> But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills. This resonated with me as I watch my kids go through school. Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and…

Resonates with me too. I'm studying Chinese full-time and the classroom format is extremely drill-heavy. Here's a sentence, now say it this other way, using this new grammar device that we just learned. Here's another, and another, and another. After that we _mostly_ rote memorize characters (mostly, because they do have fragments of meaning that you can reason about sometimes). We drill on reading and writing charac…

> Yet, the average Taiwanese can put together functional English sentences. A great many of them can speak fluently

Not true at all in my experience. I met only a few people there speaking English or French and all where young and most studied in a language department at university. There's surely a big divide along age categories and probably a North/South divide as I sometimes read people on the internet claiming Taiwanese are somewhat good in English, while I haven't seen that at all where I went (mostly Southern part).

That being said I agree with the rest of your post. Anything trying to make learning Chinese fun is actually a waste of time, and rote memorization is extremely effective. In fact, it's one of the most effective way to learn vocabulary (Nation, 2001). I find it very sad that bad methods like Remembering the Kanji are hugely popular when they are in fact a waste of time. The amount of bad content on the internet is staggering. I think the biggest issue is that most people lost the willingness to put efforts in learning, and want everything immediately.

As for learning Chinese, it also helps speakers of Chinese are usually very keen on correcting mistakes and teaching things even when not asked.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taught math with the drill style. Being forced on a daily basis into repeatedly solving problems you struggle with, trapped with no ability to escape, by people with power over you (eg. parents), having your worth judged based on your ability to solve problems forced upon you, and once you learn a skill your parents find a new weakness to torment you with, is traumatic.

Seems like a pretty poor way to really understand math anyway. If you memorize some formula you may learn how to do a specific problem faster but if you teach kids to understand how the formula was built from first principals, not only can they solve the problem, but they understand how to build the solution from scratch rather than pulling a premade solution from the memory bank. Memorizing solutions isn't useful an…

The deep understanding comes after knowing the facts.

At a low level, you can point out all the patterns that are in multiplication tables, but they won’t be remembered until the student has internalized the facts.

At a higher level, teaching epsilon-delta proofs isn’t a good way to learn calculus. Memorizing the building blocks and the chain rule is.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#93
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a problem with the drill style per say but toxic teachers and parents. You can make someone drill without tormenting them for failing. I think doing drills is good if done in a supportive setting, but it is also and should not be the only way to teach.

Do you know any kid that signed up for math drills? It's nearly always imposed by parents or teachers.

I loved math drills. In first grade we would get a sheet of simple math problems and the teacher would give us 5 minted to complete as many as possible. I was good at it, and it was one of my first experiences of competition and being better at something than my peers. I don’t know if any of that is a good thing, and it definitely would have sucked if I had been slow at math.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#94
I see skill learning as a combination of understanding and fluency.

Understanding requires time to play and explore something. It enables slow but powerful problem solving into new territory.

But fluency requires practice. And it’s benefit is quick and accurate automatic responses, freeing up the brain to tackle novel things much faster.

Together they work really well. and the repetition in obtaining fluency can also push understanding deep into stable memory where it will remain accessible years later.

I have seen a lot of education where only one side was emphasized. When kids are pushed for time, neither side gets done well.

I don’t think anyone learning anything should move on to more difficult tasks until they both really understand and become fluent at the prerequisites.

But that would take education off it’s cohort centered time schedules. That system is so ingrained in most of our non-online education systems.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#95
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and double pluses. It seems so ridiculous. I'd rather them crush a worksheet of 20 problems that practices a single skill then 2 problems that try to include everything from reading to drawing just for a simple subtraction problem. The problem with these 20 problems of basically the same identical cha…

In reality the problem is more complicated and the issue is that the current media of teaching via worksheets and teachers is lacking and insufficient, which renders this debate obsolete. What you have is different parts, learning new stuff, practicing it, but also spaced repetition. Those need to be in balance with each other but also rely on cognitive overload, tiredness and motivation (among others) of the learner…

Cool idea, my first impression is that there should be some kind of mini-arcs or long phrases that make the content more digestible. What I mean is that now the speaker goes on and on, and the subtitles are abruptly changed to another set of words. As a learner, I would like to have better sense when the words will disappear. I noticed it's arbitrary Youtube content so it's hard.. A simple testable solution for arbitrary content: option to _automatically_ pause/slow down the video just a for second before changing to the next set of text. Another simple and stupid idea would be to show previous words below the the current context.

In the long run usage of a particular user, maybe the app should not highlight words that it knows you have encountered in previous videos many times or if the system knows you have mastered that word -- in case the system is testing user, did not notice if it does.

Btw. Not sure what is the difference between green and black colored words. (Don't know Spanish so hard to guess.)

Also there's some typos at the landing page, at least these: "Activley", "wont be"

Seems like a great concept, good luck :) (I don't find Duolingo that effective either.)

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#96
post #52

The premise of Wooden's methods is that the players already have a lot of experience playing basketball. Many many games by the time they got to UCLA. Informal and formal. And that's my caveat for this as advice on painting. If a person doesn't already have a history of painting, by which I mean starting and completing paintings as paintings, no amount of drill is going turn them into a painter. The willingness to ex…

Does anybody have any reading recommendations or thoughts on the topic of how people _with_ drilled or otherwise refined skills can turn into people who come up with and complete mature creative projects? In creative contexts I know a lot of people who get stuck on just drilling their skills forever or who want to be mature creative project-completers but mysteriously aren't getting it done. I've read a lot about how…

You are relatively correct. The 10k "rule" and other general guidelines are just that --- guidelines for something that often bucks guidelines and is better for it.

3 things an artist make:

1. Finishing and finishing often. You should not be making the same thing all the time, but you should be consciously iterating in any direction you like as long as you are still finishing. Great painters, writers, musicians, are constantly making stuff, you only see the polished stuff that ends up through the filter.

2. Studying the great works in whatever your chosen field/style/genre. Know the "rules", the normal directions on the map, before you break them and decide on a shortcut or to buck convention all together. All great artists, even the enfant-terrible avant-garde artists, are extremely knowledgeable in art-history in their chosen field and can explain extremely precise opinions on the merits of one artist or movement. Most postures of naiveté are just that: posturing. Great artists know their stuff.

3. Surrounding yourself with other artists. You need people who will look at whatever you finish and tell you about it. Hopefully, these people should be as interested in good art as you, and as well versed or more well versed in art history as you. Engaging in communities of artists will make your imagination and creativity soar.

You absolutely need 1 and 2. You can get by without 3, but you will likely never achieve true greatness without it.

Everything else after that is luck.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#97
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In first grade we were given a workbook for learning how to write the letters. There was one whole page of A, one page of B, etc. You had to write maybe 100 As in a row. The kids quickly figured out that the fastest way to do it was to first write the left slant 100 times, then the right slant 100 times and finally all the 100 crossbars. So yes, you do need a little variety to defeat such shortcuts.

According to the article this is actually a really good way for kids to learn and improve. The point being that just practicing the lines is hugely important.

Exactly. That page full of A's, whether they "cheat" it or not, will teach the kids how to draw all lines that make an A. Repeat that with other letters, and then throw combination of different letters into the mix, which will force kids to draw one letter at a time, after they've already mastered all the component movements in isolation.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#98
post #22

> But drill isn’t popular. It’s widely seen as boring. Worse, there’s a body of opinion, especially in education, that considers it an ineffective way to practice. That’s a shame, because it’s the most effective way to build your skills. This resonated with me as I watch my kids go through school. Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and…

Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and double pluses. It seems so ridiculous. I'd rather them crush a worksheet of 20 problems that practices a single skill then 2 problems that try to include everything from reading to drawing just for a simple subtraction problem. The problem with these 20 problems of basically the same identical cha…

I am of course not an empirical scientist in that area but I tutored math middle school students when in High School. [Note: This was in Germany and not in the US so it wasn't 'common core']

You see, the students who failed at the interleaved problems initially, were rocking it when I had them work through like 3 of these 20-similar problems worksheets before moving on to the 'pedagogically designed' problems.

And epistemically I think it makes a lot of sense to train basics and build upon that.

I think Math education could benefit a lot if we split the subject in two courses, 3h per week on drill (Arithmetics), 2h per week on the beautiful math (can also expose the student to axioms there, functions, mappings, etc, more complex problems and solving that with math, potentially with CAS support). Best separated with different teachers.

Fact is, most high school graduates will find it challenging in their lives to apply the 'rule of three'. During the covid pandemic we have seen that members of the executive branch have no understanding of exponential growth (bad during the pandemic, but I wonder how the fiscal policy is affected by that??).

Maybe we need to rethink mathematical education once again.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#99

All of this advice is equally true with practicing a musical instrument. You will not get better if you just play songs/pieces fully over and over. You can, and often do, get worse. And it’s hard , because making music is what it’s all about. I don’t know who said this quote originally, but in the piano world, one says “practice doesn’t make perfect; practice makes permanent.”

Easier said than done: my son is learning guitar but it's the holidays. Not easy to make him practice during the holidays given that I'm not a musician..

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taught math with the drill style. Being forced on a daily basis into repeatedly solving problems you struggle with, trapped with no ability to escape, by people with power over you (eg. parents), having your worth judged based on your ability to solve problems forced upon you, and once you learn a skill your parents find a new weakness to torment you with, is traumatic.

Seems like a pretty poor way to really understand math anyway. If you memorize some formula you may learn how to do a specific problem faster but if you teach kids to understand how the formula was built from first principals, not only can they solve the problem, but they understand how to build the solution from scratch rather than pulling a premade solution from the memory bank. Memorizing solutions isn't useful an…

You can't understand a formula without repeatedly applying it to great many problems, playing with it until you get a feel for how it behaves. Without that, you'll only be "understanding" your own imaginary version of a formula, a simulation in your mind with no grounding in reality.

Same with understanding anything else in life - you don't really understand anything until you get to the point you can, in your head, predict a specific outcome, test it, and be proven correct, repeatedly.

(At some point you may learn to gain robust understanding purely from simulating things in your head, deriving insight from lower-level principles. But this itself is a skill, a hard one, which few people master. It's not something a random kid, or adult, can do.)

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