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Soviet Venus Images (2004)

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Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#71

Post by _Microft »

Sparkyte wrote: post #70
belter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should not have ignored Venus. Its easier to get to than Mars and the top of the atmosphere has reasonable temperatures. Why would a certain type of life would not be possible under 400 C or acid sulfuric environments ? It might be very different from what we have on Earth, but is there anything specific to Venus current environment that makes us believe it is not possible, with the exception it would be very, ver…

Actually venus is probably not worth it. It's runaway green house gasses definitely prevent a habitable environment. I think all life needs a stability point. Doubt the clouds could provide that. I think it would relatively easy to terraform than Mars though. You just need to start some sort of global cooling by blocking out the sun.

It is Venus that needs cooling. Mars needs global warming instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Venus#Cooling_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#72

Post by jl6 »

nomdep wrote: post #39
pmlnr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the question of paying. There are so many movies, series, etc, especially dubbed ones, that only exist in closed, offline archives, and licensing prevents them from being digitalised at all.

Even blockbuster movies. Does anyone remember the movie “Cocoon”? Is impossible to watch it now unless you can find it in an old VHS tape

Amazon have it on blu-ray, in stock, next day delivery.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#73

Post by eloff »

_Microft wrote: post #67
eloff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also while life on the surface of Venus is extremely hostile, it's possible to build floating stations in the atmosphere because it's so much more dense than earth's. High enough in the atmosphere the pressures, temperatures, and solar radiation would be reasonable. It's harder than floating a ship on water, but easier than doing airships on earth. I'm not sure what that gains us over just having a habitat in orbit t…

There is a concept by NASA for such a mission, it is called "High Altitude Venus Operational Concept" or "HAVOC" [0]. They also made a demo video for it [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Altitude_Venus_Operationa... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0az7DEwG68A

As a platform to learn about Venus it could make sense.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#74

Post by dredmorbius »

m4rtink wrote: post #69
dredmorbius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The successful Venus landers had operational lives on the ground ranging from 23 minutes to 2 hours. Months would have been phenomenal successes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera

I should have been more precise - I should have said probe flight times. The few early Soviet Mars probes that survived launch died on the way before they could reach the planet. For Venus transit the whole thing needs to keep working for much shorter time before descent module lands and the mission is over in minutes, as you mention.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

It doesn't seem that transit-phase failure was a primary cause of incomplete Soviet Mars missions, though several did fail after systems (mostly electronics) malfunctioned during coast phase. Several failed in boost phase, or in leaving Earth orbit. Two of seven missues suffered from electronics degradation which either resulted in a total or partial failure to reach the Martian surface. Mars 2 & 3, both soft landers, failed for other reasons (navigation, and perhaps Martian meterological conditions), though both arrived at the surface. Mars 2 perhaps rather faster than desired.

Mars 4 & 6 both seem to have suffered transit-stage electronics failures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_program

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#75

Post by [deleted] »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #68
cletus wrote: post #15

It's wild we have any images of the surface of Venus at all given how hostile Venus is. Given how hostile it is, it seems unlikely we'll go back anytime soon. These images were really a product of the Cold War where the US focused on Mars. It's worth noting that Venus is still probably a better terraforming target than Mars [1]. This romantic notion of Mars has rooted itself deeply at this point (eg with Elon Musk) b…

Making a cloud city on Venus is totally doable but it should be noted that the surface of Venus only rotates once per year (the actual orbit around the sun makes it two days per year). However there is a point in the clouds where you have earth level pressures and temperatures, and the clouds encircle Venus on a time scale much closer to Earth days.

[deleted]

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#76

Post by retrac »

cherryturnover wrote: post #51
gus_massa wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And abundant CO2 means oxygen is abundant. Oxygen combined with other atoms is not rare. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_Mars > Based on these data sources, scientists think that the most abundant chemical elements in the Martian crust are silicon, oxygen, iron, magnesium, aluminum, calcium, and potassium. The problem is separating the Oxygen from the other materials to get Oxygen molecules that y…

What is stopping us from launching seed payloads to these planets with some way to continually water them? Wouldn't that be a way to theoretically test the survivability of the planet without sending people?

It's possible there are some forms of Earth life that might, just maybe, survive on the Martian surface in the summer season. But probably not. There are a few issues with the idea.

First, whether lichen can survive in full sun with a watering robot to tend it, doesn't really tell us anything about whether humans can survive on Mars. (Lichen is also growing inside the Chernobyl reactor.)

Second, hopefully we haven't contaminated Mars with Earth life yet. If we have, it would make it much harder to find Martian life buried somewhere, or trace evidence of previous life on Mars in the deep past. It's official policy, and has been since the start of the space era, of all the space agencies (which they follow with varying degrees of actual commitment in practice, I assume) to avoid contamination of any planet with Earth life. Until we can conclusively rule out life or past history of life on a particular world, we should probably keep to this policy.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#77

Post by dang »

One past thread plus a couple bits:

Photos of the Surface of Venus (1975) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26188247 - Feb 2021 (2 comments)

Soviet Venus Images - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22016529 - Jan 2020 (1 comment)

Soviet Venus Images - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4360763 - Aug 2012 (51 comments)

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#78

Post by mattowen_uk »

u801e wrote: post #45
mattowen_uk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a fictional concept of gas mining in the atmosphere of Venus (like Bespin's Cloud City) but I couldn't think of a way to mitigate corrosion of the materials you'd use to build it by the sulphur dioxide... (On Venus at 50 miles up, the atmospheric pressure is approximately the same as Earth, whereas on the surface it's the equivalent pressure of Earth's Mariana trench.)

> whereas on the surface it's the equivalent pressure of Earth's Mariana trench. The surface pressure on Venus is around 90 atm which is equivalent to the pressure one km below the ocean surface. The Mariana trench is a little over 11 km deep.

Cheers, I kinda dredged the numbers up from my memory.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#79

Post by folmar »

nomdep wrote: post #39
pmlnr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the question of paying. There are so many movies, series, etc, especially dubbed ones, that only exist in closed, offline archives, and licensing prevents them from being digitalised at all.

Even blockbuster movies. Does anyone remember the movie “Cocoon”? Is impossible to watch it now unless you can find it in an old VHS tape

It has 20 different encodings on Pirate Bay alone, quite far from impossible to watch.

Re: Soviet Venus Images (2004)

#80

Post by boulos »

boulos wrote: post #59

As I said a few months ago [1], it's mostly too bad Don has moved to Twitter. Maybe someone posted this from his recent thread at [2]? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26206335 [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/DonaldM38768041/status/1410710988...

Ooh, and another interesting update on his book from a week ago or so: https://mobile.twitter.com/DonaldM38768041/status/1406751034...
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